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CarlTSpeak
Wise owl
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Message 11 of 37
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Re: GRE tunnel endpoint IPs

Things have been better recently.

I have no idea why GRE was felt necessary but presume there was some method behind the madness such as issues with compatibility of CMTS, etc.

The previous other time that such a technology was employed ntl used PPPoE to deliver a wholesale service to AOL. This could've certainly delivered static IP addresses and would've permitted placing of the device into modem mode and use of a separate router as everything can do PPPoE.

Oh well, seems to be behaving, ish, for now. Can't hit 200 but close enough.

Looking forward to next year and home move where this will be waiting.

FTTP-TG.png

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Shelke
Alessandro Volta
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Message 12 of 37
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Re: GRE tunnel endpoint IPs

@CarlTSpeak Would FTTP work out better than G Fast? I just done a check on my post code and it says speeds are available up to (ultra fast 2) 313Mb~314Mb down and 49Mb up. But that's at £60 / month and I only pay £16/month for VM currently.

Edit: image Added (the DSL speed is slow 3Mb :/, which is why I took up VM ages ago):

speed.png

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CarlTSpeak
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Message 13 of 37
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Re: GRE tunnel endpoint IPs

If you can get G.fast at the maximum speed, and I think that's it, it should be pretty similar in performance, etc, to FTTP.

The only real difference is that that is probably all you're going to get from G.fast without upgrades, whereas FTTP can go much, much faster.

To all intents and purposes, though, G.fast @ 330/50, as long as it syncs at that speed, will feel almost identical to FTTP. Slightly higher latency but talking a couple of ms.

Both use Openreach GEA - Generic Ethernet Access. The point of this is that everything looks the same once it's reached the exchange and is all delivered over Ethernet to service providers. The G.fast and FTTP 330/50 products are both delivered with the same bandwidth guarantees, capacity planning, etc, so it's really all about what the ISP does with the feed from Openreach.

Both will be almost certainly be noticeably superior to a VM DoCSIS-based service in terms of latency and jitter and deliver lower buffer bloat.

However if you don't really stand to benefit from the higher bandwidth it's debatable whether or not you'll be wanting to pay. 

For anyone who has use for high upload speeds G.fast is probably a no-brainer. VM / Liberty Global have historically shown little interest and even less in the required investment to match 50Mb. The major interest Liberty have taken in higher upload speeds on VM is how little they could spend while increasing them - selling 35Mb using 2 channels was something they were considering at one point, but their folly was pointed out to them. Gee, that'd work great on VM's fibre-shallow network.

Other G.fast options than BT Retail are available incidentally.

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philjohn
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Message 14 of 37
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Re: GRE tunnel endpoint IPs

So - question, why do you need a static IP, is it a definite requirement?

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Shelke
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Message 15 of 37
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Re: GRE tunnel endpoint IPs

Useful info, thanks for that.

Putting my hub into modem mode with a 3rd party router did help a little latency wise, it takes off 5ms to 7 ms of latency (from 25 on average in router mode to 18/19ms in modem mode+3rd party router.) I'm not sure what aspect of VM's router side components (talking Superhub 2 and Superhub 2 AC here) causes the poorer latency, but it seems to be a thing.

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CarlTSpeak
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Message 16 of 37
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Re: GRE tunnel endpoint IPs


@philjohnwrote:

So - question, why do you need a static IP, is it a definite requirement?


I don't need a static IP, I need a subnet of them. I've been running with two Internet connections to supply that until VMB sorted their static services out better.

I'm a home worker for a software defined networking company. I have basically a branch office and lab here, alongside the usual goodness a 'power' home user may require. 

My networking in terms of routing is a software defined WAN appliance, a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter and a Netgear Nighthawk x10.

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CarlTSpeak
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Message 17 of 37
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Re: GRE tunnel endpoint IPs


@Shelkewrote:

Useful info, thanks for that.

Putting my hub into modem mode with a 3rd party router did help a little latency wise, it takes off 5ms to 7 ms of latency (from 25 on average in router mode to 18/19ms in modem mode+3rd party router.) I'm not sure what aspect of VM's router side components (talking Superhub 2 and Superhub 2 AC here) causes the poorer latency, but it seems to be a thing.


Routing change due to IP address change perhaps?

So here's my BT Infinity:

--- www.bbc.net.uk ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9013ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 10.616/10.822/11.167/0.191 ms

And VMB:

--- www.bbc.net.uk ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9014ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 24.133/29.377/35.046/3.486 ms

Why so different? Here's why:

traceroute to www.bbc.co.uk (212.58.246.93), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
1 * * *
2 31.55.185.181 (31.55.185.181) 10.113 ms 9.980 ms 10.200 ms
3 31.55.185.180 (31.55.185.180) 10.488 ms 10.352 ms 10.515 ms
4 core2-hu0-12-0-5.colindale.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.122) 10.252 ms core2-hu0-2-0-3.colindale.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.114) 10.746 ms core2-hu0-8-0-5.colindale.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.154) 9.858 ms

Via BT my connection is in London in less than 10 ms.

traceroute to www.bbc.co.uk (212.58.246.94), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 gateway (192.168.0.1) 0.204 ms 0.168 ms 0.149 ms
2 209.174-31-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk (62.31.174.209) 0.948 ms 1.411 ms 3.469 ms
3 * * *
4 perr-core-2a-ae16-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.253.138.245) 22.765 ms 31.620 ms 22.936 ms
5 * * *
6 tcl5-ic-4-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.252.192.246) 42.884 ms 41.665 ms 42.869 ms

Via VMB I'm taken on a magical mystery tour to Birmingham, which takes >20ms, then have another 20ms trip between Birmingham and London.

Makes perfect sense given I'm in that tiny provincial town that is Leeds, and Birmingham is famous for being incredibly well connected to the Internet at large, isn't like almost everything goes through London and Manchester or anything.

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Very Insightful Person
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Message 18 of 37
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Re: GRE tunnel endpoint IPs


@CarlTSpeakwrote:

@Shelkewrote:

Useful info, thanks for that.

Putting my hub into modem mode with a 3rd party router did help a little latency wise, it takes off 5ms to 7 ms of latency (from 25 on average in router mode to 18/19ms in modem mode+3rd party router.) I'm not sure what aspect of VM's router side components (talking Superhub 2 and Superhub 2 AC here) causes the poorer latency, but it seems to be a thing.


Routing change due to IP address change perhaps?

So here's my BT Infinity:

--- www.bbc.net.uk ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9013ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 10.616/10.822/11.167/0.191 ms

And VMB:

--- www.bbc.net.uk ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9014ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 24.133/29.377/35.046/3.486 ms

Why so different? Here's why:

traceroute to www.bbc.co.uk (212.58.246.93), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
1 * * *
2 31.55.185.181 (31.55.185.181) 10.113 ms 9.980 ms 10.200 ms
3 31.55.185.180 (31.55.185.180) 10.488 ms 10.352 ms 10.515 ms
4 core2-hu0-12-0-5.colindale.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.122) 10.252 ms core2-hu0-2-0-3.colindale.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.114) 10.746 ms core2-hu0-8-0-5.colindale.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.154) 9.858 ms

Via BT my connection is in London in less than 10 ms.

traceroute to www.bbc.co.uk (212.58.246.94), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 gateway (192.168.0.1) 0.204 ms 0.168 ms 0.149 ms
2 209.174-31-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk (62.31.174.209) 0.948 ms 1.411 ms 3.469 ms
3 * * *
4 perr-core-2a-ae16-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.253.138.245) 22.765 ms 31.620 ms 22.936 ms
5 * * *
6 tcl5-ic-4-ae5-0.network.virginmedia.net (62.252.192.246) 42.884 ms 41.665 ms 42.869 ms

Via VMB I'm taken on a magical mystery tour to Birmingham, which takes >20ms, then have another 20ms trip between Birmingham and London.

Makes perfect sense given I'm in that tiny provincial town that is Leeds, and Birmingham is famous for being incredibly well connected to the Internet at large, isn't like almost everything goes through London and Manchester or anything.


Is that with GRE on?

 

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CarlTSpeak
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Message 19 of 37
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Re: GRE tunnel endpoint IPs

Yes indeed. The other end of the tunnel in VM's Perry Barr site in North Birmingham. 

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Message 20 of 37
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Re: GRE tunnel endpoint IPs

Exactly the same route from Belfast. Local infrastructure, over to Birmingham then on to London.

We got anyone in London can try a tracert LOL? Want to bet it goes to on a mystery tour to Birmingham too?

I know its stating the obvious, but looks like no matter where yo are all GRE routes point to the same infrastructure in Birmingham. Which maybe explains the latency.

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