DNS cache issue updated domain

[Bunglenick]

I have recently moved my website to a new host and updated the name servers of my domain to point to the new servers my site is on.
I have done a DNS check and the propagation process is completed WORLDWIDE.

That is, apart from with VM's DNS servers.
They still point to the old site on the old host.
Which I need to delete ASAP.

How can I fix this issue?
Doing a quick Google search shows this is a copy issue with no real solution.
Am I just stuck like this forever? Will half the country looking at an old site that can't be updated and my new site going to waste?

If so, how do I take VM to court for loss of earnings due to unfair censorship of my site?

[ravenstar68]

I failed to note that the DIG I posted was actually a second dig I'd done of VM's server.  The cache actually expired by 10:46 - Which was very close to the time I predicted.

C:\Users\timdu>dig @194.168.4.100 txt test.timothydutton.co.uk

; <<>> DiG 9.10.6-P1 <<>> @194.168.4.100 txt test.timothydutton.co.uk
; (1 server found)
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 15188
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;test.timothydutton.co.uk.      IN      TXT

;; ANSWER SECTION:
test.timothydutton.co.uk. 1800  IN      TXT     "New"

;; Query time: 27 msec
;; SERVER: 194.168.4.100#53(194.168.4.100)
;; WHEN: Mon Nov 05 10:46:40 GMT Standard Time 2018
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 69

So for me Virgin Media's caching is working as it's supposed to.

Tim

[ravenstar68]

Depending on the TTL for your domain name on the original servers.  I can actually envisage it taking up to 72 hours to get the correct entry.

Why?

Because as indicated in my earlier posts it's not just one entry that's cached it's the entries needed to get to that entry that are cached as well.

So lets assume that the parking page for Namecheap has a 24 hour TTL = 86400 seconds.  This is often the default for most registrars.

Verisign themselves, in common with the other TLD owners have 48 hour TTL's on their entries.

So what happens if you change DNS providers?

The entry at Verisign is updated but if a caching server e.g. Virgin or BT has only just queried the server, It'll carry on using the cached entry UNTIL the TTL expires - e.g. 48 hours.

However what happens if I keep checking the enrty?  Well imagine I do a check with less than a minute to go, that means Virgin Media will again use the cached entry and query namecheap - it will then cache the namecheap entry for 24 hours.

So until the 24 hours has expired we keep getting the parking page.  Therefore maximum time to update in this circumstance would be 48hours (verisign TTL) + 24 Hours (Namecheap TTL) = 72 Hours.

Note: that someone querying from a different DNS server (as in my case) that hasn't cached either entry before

This is actually down to how DNS was designed, caching aims to reduce the load on the DNS servers, after all DNS entries may actually remain unchanged for some period of time.  It's more likely that someone will change an A record before they'll change DNS provider which is why the Top Level Domain zones have 48 hour caching periods but the websites used to default to 24 hours.

I've seen posts in the BT forums complaining, and despite that you say about Sky, I also found this:

http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-broadband-help/53118-dns-caching-problem-how-long-will-take-sky-b...

So it's not a Virgin Media issue, it's normal DNS functioning.

Tim

[Cakemamma]

I have read this post in its entirety and feel like I have a basic understanding of how dns caches work for isps. Could I just clarify one thing please? (I know his thread is old but this problem is a perpetual struggle for website owners).

If virgins local to me DNS cache has not updated my new website ip/names ever/ect yet, does trying to acess this website from my home wifi extend the cache time again and again? 

I verified my website with the registrar 3 days ago, causing the same issue as op, virgin directing me to old defunct address while mobile data and everyone else sees the new address. Is my relentless refreshing of the page causing the cache to hold on to the old details longer?

Should we just leave it the heck alone for 72 hours and things should have sorted themselves out?

Or, does my refreshing do nothing and when the TTL elapses all of a sudden my page will be visible?

Any clarification will be helpful to me and any other poor impatient souls who happen across this thread.

Thank you in advance! 

[Cakemamma]

Ok another thing. 

I changed website 9am 8/8/19

All of 8th and 9th server not found

10th left it completely alone

11th 9.44am tried it and yes I can access the cache must have updated. So yes 3 days and it was all ok.

On the 9th I called virgin and tried to get my  "network cache" cleared as was told this was the problem by both virgin and hostgator.

I was lead on a wild goose chase which ended in 2nd line help saying they can instantly solve my problem but I had to PAY 20 POUNDS UPFRONT AND 5 A MONTH FOR 6 MONTHS FOR AN INTERNET "SERVICE" PACKAGE.

BEWARE! ! THEY KNEW FINE WELL THIS PROBLEM I WAS HAVING WOULD RECTIFY ORGANICALLY IN A FEW DAYS BUT STILL TRIED TO MILK MY MONEY COW!! I think this is taking advantage of my lack of experience and knowledge of how dns cache works. Disgusting I think.

Be patient people please don't fall for this ridiculous scam off virgin unless you genuinely want 6 months 'Internet help service'.

Thank god I found this thread and got a bit clued up as they had me believe I was permanently blocked from my own website. You aren't,  just wait it out.

There I've said my piece.

[jem101]

@Cakemamma 

In answer to your first question, no, repeatedly doing a lookup against a DNS server which returns a cached result doesn't reset the TTL timer. Only when a DNS server queries a higher level one does the timer get reset to the value specified in this higher level server for the record in question.

Now your second point, a good rule is the old 'never assign to malice that which can better be attributed to incompetence'. I'm going to hazard a guess that you spoke to VM's customer service people who are mostly geared towards the 'turn it on and off again' or 'we'll change wifi channels for you'. Talking about DNS is going to be so far over (most) of their heads that's it might as well be in orbit!

They do seem to have a habit though, of when something crops up that's beyond their knowledge, of just making something up.

[ravenstar68]

As @jem101 has said, you continually requesting the data doesn't continuously reset the TTL on the caching server.  You just have to be aware that the server caches at least two entries.

Final result.- Common default used to be 24 hours
Namservers - common default is 48 hours.

This is why registrars will quote up to 48 hours for DNS changes to fully propagate, but in theory if you make a query just before the nameserver cache expires you can end up getting the old value and then have to wait another 24 hours for the final result to expire.

So normally if you leave it for 49 hours (to be on the safe side) without querying at all then you should have the updated entry.  But 72 hours is the maximum it should take.  It's not a failure on VM's part, it's how DNS was designed to work.

With regards to faults - I'm not sure that they actually put you through to second line, regardless, many phone agents aren;t IMHO recruited for their technical knowledge, by the sound of it this also applies to Hostgator.  However from personal experience as well as posts on here I can give you perfect examples of bad advice they give.

When told I'm getting 4% packet loss - "What's packet loss?"
When told that a mail server was rejecting my mobile connection - "Perhaps the mobile network is busy!"

I can give a few more, but based on those two answers alone, I can tell you that agents I've spoken to wouldn't have a clue when it comes to DNS.

Tim

[Tudor]

Totally agree with @ravenstar68, DNS in call takers and support people stands for Does Not Support. 

[Cakemamma]

Thank you for the above replies confirming reloading your page doesn't extend the wait period!

And I understand the first line support are just broadband service specific, not trained on the intricacies of the Internet. But! I was transferred to a second line team who would have taken 50 quid off me to supposedly fix a problem that would have rectified for free within hours or days maximum which I don't take kindly to! They did know better whichever team they were as they were shilling a 6 month sign up to a service that specialises in 'Internet stuff'. 

Anyhow I just hope anyone having this issue in the future comes across this thread first! I'm so grateful for the generosity of people with experience sharing their knowledge and time to help others for free. Thank you everyone!

[Iantothew]

That is not true. Every time I change servers I have had this issue only on virgin media. And last time it went on for weeks. 

We understand dns. Vm seems not to. This is ridiculous. 

[legacy1]

VM may cache DNS lookups longer then the TTL for some sites.