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JamesUnlimited
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Message 1 of 16
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5 Static IPs & Hitron in Modem Mode

Morning, I've searched the community and wider web for specific answers on this, but apologies if I'm repeating others.

I've been informed by Virgin Business tech support that it is possible to have the Hitron in modem mode and take advantage of a WAN static IP as long as I opt for the range of 5 static IPs.

Does anyone know if this is true? I went through a lot of hassle, like many others, trying to configure a single static IP with my VMB connection and want to avoid losing my business' internet connection again...

I've got a feeling that I've been slightly misled - I'll still need the Hitron in router mode to enable GRE tunnelling etc, but having multiple statics will allow me to push a direct WAN connection to a router configured with one of the WAN IPs behind the Hitron, and I can take care of my LAN from that. Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated. thank you.

 

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Tudor
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Message 2 of 16
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Re: 5 Static IPs & Hitron in Modem Mode

You need to ask this question of VM business support. This board is for residential customers. 


There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary and those who don't and F people out of 10 who do not understand hexadecimal
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Sephiroth
Alessandro Volta
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Message 3 of 16
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Re: 5 Static IPs & Hitron in Modem Mode

You'll get more support for Business Broadband from this Forum than from anywhere else except …

cableforum.co.uk

The resident expert on these questions is CCARMOCK so look for his threads.

Last I knew was that in modem mode, you have a dynamic IP connection and the firmware cannot thus create the tunnel through to the VMB system.


Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

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peterinreading
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Message 4 of 16
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Re: 5 Static IPs & Hitron in Modem Mode

I have the same issue.The background is that I have multiple sites connected together via ISEC VPN tunnels. The main site is on a residential VM cable connection with the modem in modem mode. This works fine except that the IP number keeps changing so then I have to reset all the VPN setups to the new IP number which is a complete pain. So I am now in the process of shifting to a business service so I can get a fixed IP number. What they didnt tell me when I ordered the business service is that I can't use modem mode with a static IP address and indeed the modem prevents me doing this. Whatever the technical reasons it is difficult to understand the business logic - the main point of a static IP number is to be able to handle incoming traffic easily.

So now VM have told me I can get modem mode to work if I have 5 static IPs assigned, but not with just 1 static IP assigned which makes little sense to me as the same technical constraints must exist however many IP numbers are used. So your suggestion sounds interesting that maybe actually the router will remain in router mode but that there is an additional IP passthrough facility of some sort.

I'm very interested if anyone actually got this going satisfactorily. I can't find anything useful on the support pages from either VM or Hitron.

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peterinreading
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Message 5 of 16
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Re: 5 Static IPs & Hitron in Modem Mode

I managed to get it going with 5 static IPs. No documentation was provided by Virgin Media about how to set this up - I had to figure it out by trial and error.

As JamesUnlimited suspected, it is not modem mode at all - its a specific feature which passes traffic for a specified range of static ip numbers directly through to the LAN side. In my case I allocated one of these static ip numbers to the modem itself, which then acts as the gateway, and another one to my VPN router on the LAN side. The remaining static IP numbers are not used. I also configured the DMZ with the gateway IP but I'm not sure whether this was strictly necessary.

One word of warning - the configuration screens imply that the static ip range may be used for a DHCP server - but I could not get this to work. Not sure why you would want this anyway.

Performance is very poor - but thats another story ...

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peterinreading
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Message 6 of 16
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Re: 5 Static IPs & Hitron in Modem Mode

In conclusion: the VM implementation of static IP addresses is a complete mess. Generally static IPs are considered the norm not an exception - you only use DHCP in scenarios where you have an unknown number of clients and you don't want to have to manage them individually. So VM had to invent an astonishingly complex workround for a feature which should have been part of their network from day 1.

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Sephiroth
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Message 7 of 16
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Re: 5 Static IPs & Hitron in Modem Mode

The reason that they invented this convoluted mess was commercial. They wanted to maximise value from the residential network.

So the first thing the modem has to do is to become a client of the CMTS under dynamic IP address rules. Having done this, it can set up a VPN tunnel past the CMTS across to the Virgin Media Business servers.

Of course it's gonna be bad!
Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

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peterinreading
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Message 8 of 16
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Re: 5 Static IPs & Hitron in Modem Mode

Seph

I think you have misunderstood my point. Static IPs should have been part of the standard system from day 1. Not from the day they started offering commerical services. It should have been part of their network from the day they first started offering any sort of ip service. It should have been part of the initial design because it is such an obvious standard requirement whichever way you look at it. So I disagree that it was a deliberate commercial decision - VM and its predecessors were never that clever - it was a design error. It would have been easy to incorporate in the original design. Of course there in a cost overhead to manage static IPs but that cost can be passed on to customers.

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Sephiroth
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Message 9 of 16
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Re: 5 Static IPs & Hitron in Modem Mode

Peter (from Seph in Winnersh),

I do understand your point. But the commercial decision goes back a long way - to the point that dynamic IP addresses were determined as a policy. As you have said, static IP addresses would have pushed the price up and thus would have made VM uncompetitive with BT and the like.


Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

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CarlTSpeak
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Message 10 of 16
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Re: 5 Static IPs & Hitron in Modem Mode

The only ways to offer full static IP addresses were either to use the system VM are or to use PPPoE or some other tunneling.

There is no other way to ensure completely static IP addresses over cable services than tunneling.

Generally static IPs are considered the norm not an exception - you only use DHCP in scenarios where you have an unknown number of clients and you don't want to have to manage them individually. 

Such as, say, a broadband network where take up varies, devices come online and go offline as customers sign up and churn, and you certainly don't want to have to manage each customer individually?

DHCP is not considered an exception when dealing with access network devices. We don't assign static IP addresses to every PC in an enterprise environment and certainly cannot assign static IP addresses when dealing with segmented networks where client machines may, occasionally, move from one segment to another.

I'm running on a dynamic IP on my business service, as performance over static IP wasn't to my taste. I'm in the range 86.28.208.0/20, connected via lee2-cmts-13. To keep things static VM would have to have lots of small subnets being moved, manually, along with the customers on them when the network was resegmented. It's not really viable across 350,000-odd business cable modem services let alone across millions of residential services - how do VM handle splitting an area in half? Do they have to map subnets geographically to customers depending which part of the RF network they are on, right down to assigning subnets per end cabinet, and can you imagine RIPE tolerating such a waste of addresses, VM allocating 64 IP addresses to each access network cabinet and moving each /26 across as and when?

TL;DR - static IP addresses, fully static, aren't standard on cable services for a really good reason.