Are Virgin Media Exploiting Older People?

[ManchesterfordP]

I am very upset, having just spoken with my Father about his renewal. He is has been with VM since they were NTL, a loyal customer. His renewal price has come through and he has use the 'chat' feature to renegotiate. However, what he was quoted as the 'best deal' is the same package as mine but pay £24 a month more. This has happened before, and also with my neighbours and a friends parents. 

I am angry he is being exploited but also extremely distressed that on finding this out, his confidence is shaken. 

Has anyone else had experience of this? We had something similar last year but I (naively) thought it was a one off. 

[Client62]

Virgin Media operate a yearly price ratchet.

The price goes up to match the customers tolerance.

Until the customer rejects the service and cancels there will be no discussion of a discount.

[ManchesterfordP]

Has anyone else had this experience relating to older people? I had to negotiate on my bill but they were not prepared to do so with my Father and have lied directly to him about what is and isn't possible in pricing. 

[ManchesterfordP]

I am very upset, having just spoken with my Father about his renewal. He is has been with VM since they were NTL, a loyal customer. His renewal price has come through and he has use the 'chat' feature to renegotiate. However, what he was quoted as the 'best deal' is the same package as mine but pay £24 a month more. This has happened before, and also with my neighbours and a friends parents. 

I am angry he is being exploited but also extremely distressed that on finding this out, his confidence is shaken. 

Has anyone else had experience of this? We had something similar last year but I (naively) thought it was a one off. 

[japitts]

I very much doubt that there's any intentional or systemic exploitation of older people, but you have used the world "loyalty" in your post. On a purely commercial basis, this is a euphemism for "I have stayed with VM regardless of alternative options and haven't really shopped around".

Come at this from VM's point of view, why should they offer a discounted renewal price when the customer is very likely to stay regardless? It's just lost profit.

Constructively, you at least need to compare VM's price with those from alternative suppliers and suggest to retentions that you would be willing to cancel your services unless they come closer - but be prepared to do so.

[goslow]

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@ManchesterfordP wrote:

I am very upset, having just spoken with my Father about his renewal. He is has been with VM since they were NTL, a loyal customer. His renewal price has come through and he has use the 'chat' feature to renegotiate. However, what he was quoted as the 'best deal' is the same package as mine but pay £24 a month more. This has happened before, and also with my neighbours and a friends parents. 

I am angry he is being exploited but also extremely distressed that on finding this out, his confidence is shaken. 

Has anyone else had experience of this? We had something similar last year but I (naively) thought it was a one off. 

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VM's way of selling aims to broker an individual deal with each individual customer based on the maximum amount of money VM can extract from each individual customer during the 'negotiating' process. It has been likened on here before to haggling at the market.

For the best negotiators and hagglers it may work well as a customer. For older customers, who may not be comfortable in dealing with a supplier in that way, they can be placed at quite a disadvantage. It is not uncommon on here to find friends, family members, neighbours reporting they are paying wildly different prices for the same services.

Is he still within his 14 day cooling off period since making the changes?

[ManchesterfordP]

Thanks for your response, when I say loyalty, I am not expecting any kind of preferential treatment more just fairness and transparency. I have spoken to 8 friends and we have all spoken with parents and neighbours. All have discovered older people being charged more, with different providers. 

There were very few options for shopping round in the area my parents lived in, and until recently pricing seemed consistent across products and customers. Now it seems they are plucked from thin air. 

Commerically savvy on VM's behalf? Yes probably. Unfair to those more vulnerable in society who aren't able to barter, haggle and deal with the signifiant upheaval of changing providers? Definitely

[newapollo]

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@ManchesterfordP wrote:

Has anyone else had this experience relating to older people? I had to negotiate on my bill but they were not prepared to do so with my Father and have lied directly to him about what is and isn't possible in pricing. 

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Hi @ManchesterfordP 

Whilst you can't make any changes for your father as he is the account holder, would it be possible for you to sit with your father whilst he passes DPA?

He could  then ask the agent to do the negotiating with you.  If you agree a suitable pricing then you pass the phone back to your father to authorise.

[ManchesterfordP]

Thanks for your kind response. I think I may need to do this, although this is tricky as we live 3 hours apart.

Hhe had attempted to get through to VM on the phone several times without success and I've also tried to call them, about my own bill and it was impossible to get through. 

I'm sure we can sort it but I feel they should be held accountable for the damage done to his confidence in managing his own affairs. 

[Andrew-G]

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@japitts wrote:

I very much doubt that there's any intentional or systemic exploitation of older people,

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Not intentional perhaps, but it remains a fact that where there's a range of possible prices that customers pay and that depends upon negotiation, customers who are less able to engage will always pay higher prices.  And "less able to engage" means those with all forms of vulnerability, plus those lacking confidence, lower education attainment, less favoured socio-economic groups (even ethnicities, gender and orientation affect the outcomes), or those whose life circumstances mean they may not have the time, knowledge or energy to go into a combative, well prepared discussion with retentions.  I'd say that's certainly a systemic outcome, up to the reader to conclude whether it is exploitation that some generally less wealthy customer groups pay more to fund the big discounts offered to serial middle class switchers.

At this point I should say that I have reason to know this is the case: I used to work for an energy supplier back in the days before they all suppliers charged the same, and when we were forced by the CMA to do a proper demographic analysis it came out (unsurprisingly) that the main beneficiaries of competition, switching and price variation were socio-economic groups ABC1.  Even without individual pricing, and just from having a range of deals on offer it turned out that most of the company's profits came from those least able to afford it, and the most wealthy were routinely on zero profit or loss making deals.  Fortunately for shareholders, the CMA flunked asking us to analyse pricing and margin by vulnerability, because that would have had a really bad outcome.  Simply offering a social tariff doesn't solve this at all, that's just window dressing due to eligibility and uptake aspects.

The same concepts will apply in telecoms, and it looks like Ofcom are failing to implement their duties under PSED, in that they haven't (publicly) compared pricing as charged across different demographics and customer attributes by the different ISPs. What they might do if they did that and found out the relevant facts, who knows?  The insurance sector "renewal to match new customer pricing" model seems one option, but the long term consequences of that in the relevant sector are still unknown, and may have unintended consequences that are unwelcome.