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Hub 3 / Compal CH7465-LG (TG2492LG) and CGNV4 Latency Cause

Datalink
Up to speed

Good Day Ladies and Gentlemen,

Greetings from the other side of the pond, so to speak.  Over the last few weeks I've been perusing various user forums across North America and Europe for issues related to Intel Puma 6 modem latency.  Of those forums, your Hub 3 stands out as yet another Puma 6 based modem where users see continuous latency no matter what site is used or what online game is played. Considering all of the problems that are on the go, the following information should be of interest to all Hub 3, Compal CH7465-LG and Hitron CGNV4 modem users.  There is much more to post regarding this, so this is a start, to alert VM users as to the real cause of the latency and hopefully engage the VM engineering staff, via the forum staff, with Arris.  I am surprised to see that there has been no mention on this board of users from other ISPs who are suffering the exact same issues with their modems, so, this may come as a surprise to some, and possibly old news to others.

So, the short story ........

The Hub 3 / Compal CH7465-LG (TG2492LG) & Hiton CGNV4 modems are Intel Puma 6 / 6 Media Gateway (MG) based modems.  These modems exhibit high latency to the modem and high latency thru the modem.  The latency affects all IPV4 and IPV6 protocols, so it will be seen on every internet application and game.  The basic cause is the processing of the data packets thru a CPU software based process instead of thru the hardware processor / accelerator.  It appears that a higher priority task runs periodically, causing the packet processing to halt, and then resume.  This is observed as latency in applications and in ping tests to the modem and beyond.  For the last several weeks, Hitron, along with Intel and Rogers Communications in Canada have been addressing the latency issue within the Hitron CGNxxx series modems.  To date, only the IPV4 ICMP latency has been resolved.  Although this is only one protocol, it does show that a Puma 6MG modem is capable of using the hardware processor / accelerator with good results.  Currently Rogers is waiting for further firmware updates from Hitron which should include an expanded list of resolved protocol latency issues.  For Arris modems, "Netdog" an Arris engineer indicated last week that Arris was onboard to address the issue for the Arris SB6190 modem.  That should be considered as good news for any Arris modem (read Hub 3) user as Arris should be able to port those changes over to other Puma 6/6MG modems fairly quickly.  This is not a trivial exercise and will probably take several weeks to accomplish.  Note that there is no guarantee at this point that it is possible to shift all packet processing to the hardware processor / accelerator without suffering from any packet loss side effects.  Time will tell if all of the technical issues can be resolved with the current hardware included in the Puma 6/6MG chipset.  Last night, Netdog loaded beta firmware on selected test modems on the Comcast Communications network.  As this was only done last night, it's too soon to tell what this version resolves and if it was successful or not.  Netdog has contacts with staff at Comcast, Rogers, Charter and Cox Communications to fan out beta versions and modifications for testing.  I'd say its time to add Virgin Media and/or Liberty Global to that group as well.

Recent activity:

Approx three weeks ago a DSLReports user, xymox1 started a thread where he reported high latency to an Arris SB6190 and illustrated that with numerous MultiPing plots.  This is the same latency that I and other users with Rogers communications have been dealing with for months so it came as no surprise.  As well as reporting via that thread, xymox1 took it upon himself to email several staff members at Arris, Intel, Cablelabs and others.  The result of that campaign was Netdog's announcement, last week, that Arris was fully engaged at resolving the issue.  That has led to last nights release of beta firmware, although as I indicated its too early to determine what the beta firmware resolves, if anything.


The original thread that xymox1 started is here:

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31079834-ALL-SB6190-is-a-terrible-modem-Intel-Puma-6-MaxLinear-mis...


Yesterday, DSLReports issued a news story covering the thread:

https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/The-Arris-SB6190-Modem-Puma-6-Chipset-Have-Some-Major-Issues-138...


Today, Arris responded:

https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Arris-Tells-us-Its-Working-With-Intel-on-SB6190-Puma6-Problems-1...


That response was also picked by Multichannel.com

http://www.multichannel.com/news/distribution/intel-arris-working-firmware-fix-sb6190-modem/409379

This is more news likely to appear in the next few days as additional tech and news staff pick up on this issue.


Hub 3 observations:

Like many others using a Puma 6/6MG modem, Hub 3 users are experiencing latency when they ping the modem, or ping a target outside of the home, game online or use low latency applications.  The common misconception is that this is Buffer Bloat. It's not. Its most likely a case of the packet processing stopping while the CPU processes a higher priority task.  The packet processing is done via the CPU no matter what mode the modem is operating in, modem mode or router mode and no matter what IPV4 or IPV6 protocol is used.  Normally, the latency is just that, latency.  The exception are UDP packets. In this case there is latency and packet loss.  The result of that is delayed and failed DNS lookups, and poor game performance for games that use UDP for player/server comms or player/player comms.


Can this be fixed?

So far, it appears that the answer is yes.  Rogers Communications issued beta firmware to a small group of test modems in October.  This version shifted the IPV4 ICMP processing from the CPU to the hardware processor / accelerator, resulting in greatly improved performance in ping latency.  At the present time we are waiting for the next version firmware which should shift other protocols over to the hardware processor / accelerator.  That can be seen in the following post:

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Getting_connected/message-id/369...

The details and results of last nights beta release to the Comcast group have yet to be seen.

At this point there is enough reading to keep most staff and users busy.  My intention is to post some of the history leading up to this point and instructions on how to detect the latency and packet loss.  This is not thru the use of a BQM.  I had hoped to post this all at once but events are moving much faster than I had thought they would.  For now this should suffice to get the ball rolling.

Below is a link to a post with a couple of HrPing plots from my 32 channel modem to the connected CMTS.  This shows the latency that is observed and reflects what others have posted in this forum using Pingplotter and HrPing.

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31106550-

HrPing is one of the freebie applications that can be used to monitor the latency to and thru the modem. 

Pingplots with Pingplotter which show the latency from my modem to the CMTS can be found in the first two to three rows of my online image library at Rogers Communications, located below.  They are essentially what the BQM would look like if you were able to zoom into the plot to the point where you could see the individual ping spikes.  Those ping spikes are common to Puma 6 and Puma 6MG modems.

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/media/gallerypage/user-id/829158

 

 

 [MOD EDIT: Subject heading changed to assist community]

4,478 REPLIES 4,478

mrpauljames
Tuning in

Well people were right, I did get a superhub 3, which is not massively helpful. The superhub 2 ac I got from a friend could not be activated, which was also not massively helpful.

Fortunately, I got a call from Tristan's cover today and he's sending me out a superhub 2 ac for delivery on Tuesday. Yay.

It took over 3 hours of calling in total, and being passed through multiple reps (BTW VM - If you're going to put someone on hold while you check with your manager, do not just transfer them through to freaking india, **bleep**s).

Hopefully on Tuesday I will be all good to go!

How do you get through to that guy?

I want a superhub 2ac..

Or I am leaving VM as I am sick of the **bleep**ty service.

I don't give a **bleep** about speed I want quality...

I am a gamer and I am on a gamer package. . If I am traffic managed as I was told on the phone.. that is against the contract. So is the whole Gamer Package that is not being sold to me since the gamer package came out. So breach of contract.

Ty_S
Moderator (Retired)
Moderator (Retired)

@LdGallifryan @mrpauljames Can we please keep this thread clean or it will be locked. It's not something we want to do as the community have contributed a lot to it. 

Thanks 

  • Threatening or rude language is not tolerated.

The do's and don'ts. Keep the community welcoming for all. Follow the house rules


We want to know what Virgin Media is doing about the situation as we feel that we are bring Duped by the company that we have been loyal to for years most of us that is the case!. For me since 1997.

And for me it is personal hate for VM as I have gone day and night trying to do your dirty work. All I see if VM just sending us Engineers and Replacement same hubs. .

I mean you as a company should offer us all the previous hub. Or the ability to buy our own modem to link to our accounts if we wish to so we can resolve the issue ourselves.

As your hub is clearly not up to the job.
(We want to be in on the know of what VM is doing about it)

@Ty_S

When the "support" on the phone actually do that, instead of passing around the phone call when they can't / don't want to deal with the call, without warning, then I will be calm. I don't know if you work for VM but the way you're treating your customers is disgusting.

And you're right, this is something the community has contributed A LOT to, so tell me, when is VM actually going to contribute and give us some answers as to what the hell is going on?

I've manged to speak to two helpful employees over the last 3 phone calls, each lasting over an hour in duration. At least 10-15 people on those calls. I pay a lot of money for my service, and I shouldn't have to do the following:

1. Provide my information and explain my situation every damn time i get transferred.
2. Justify my issues and explain what is a well known issue on this forum and around the web to your employees when it's an issue with hardware you supply.
3. Put up with being passed around on the calls all the time.
4. Take the initiative to find out the issues myself, find the correct person to speak to myself, find extra equipment myself, diagnose the issue and find the appropriate solution. MYSELF.

So to be brutally honest, I feel I'm justified not keeping it clean considering the quality of service I've received from VM.

And I'll repeat my last question, but I don't expect a response;

When will we receive an official response or update to this issue, which is effecting a lot of people, regarding Virgin Media's faulty hardware, which has been outstanding for over 2 years now?

Adduxi
Very Insightful Person
Very Insightful Person

@chriswheeler wrote:

Virgin Media has a duty to make sure what ever they are rolling out to customers works, they have not done that and have just rolled out a faulty product without any testing.


Incorrect.  All hubs are subject to testing, both internally and by a selection of users on this Forum. 

How VM deal with bug reports is up to them, but they are tested, I can assure you.

I'm a Very Insightful Person, I'm here to share knowledge, I don't work for Virgin Media. Learn more

Have I helped? Click Mark as Helpful Answer or use Kudos to say thanks

If that is correct they tested these hubs since they had access to change the software that makes it there's. Inturn that is VM''s responsibility in doing there upmost to rectify the issues.

But for over 2 years!
Poet Flapping now this as well.

Not only the issues and issues on top, that are noted in this Thread, it is sick that this has been going on for so long.

I recently had a Engineer Visit I had to show him this thread and he was unaware of the issues, but he ha's been replacing these hubs for so many people with the same issues.

He said that he was only a RF checker and installer of there products. "Only a Network Engineerwould know about the issue".

So my question how comes we cannot use equipment that we can buy.. like a modem of our choosing to sort the issue.

As the engineer told me that it is near impossible to have these SH2AC in there vans as they are phasing and replacing them.

When they come to your homes and a engineer sees a SH2 or SH2AC they will rip it out and change it for the SH3.0.

ShadowOfDeth69
Dialled in
This is EXACTLY what happens when the powers that be do not communicate or even remotely acknowledge their customers concerns. They get angry and rightfully so.

You can't just threaten to lock a thread with thousands of replies because of a few heated posts. Just keep censoring the swearing, if you really have to, and move along. People are **bleep** and have every right to vent. Come on.

Now. Any updates on the new firmware yet? I can't find anything online!

Adduxi
Very Insightful Person
Very Insightful Person

The new firmware is in closed testing at present and trialist's have been requested not to discuss in this Forum. 

I'm a Very Insightful Person, I'm here to share knowledge, I don't work for Virgin Media. Learn more

Have I helped? Click Mark as Helpful Answer or use Kudos to say thanks

Aw. There was a guy posting the other day with it but totally skated over the specific gaming questions while answering others.