Hub 3 / Compal CH7465-LG (TG2492LG) and CGNV4 Latency Cause

[Datalink]

Good Day Ladies and Gentlemen,

Greetings from the other side of the pond, so to speak.  Over the last few weeks I've been perusing various user forums across North America and Europe for issues related to Intel Puma 6 modem latency.  Of those forums, your Hub 3 stands out as yet another Puma 6 based modem where users see continuous latency no matter what site is used or what online game is played. Considering all of the problems that are on the go, the following information should be of interest to all Hub 3, Compal CH7465-LG and Hitron CGNV4 modem users.  There is much more to post regarding this, so this is a start, to alert VM users as to the real cause of the latency and hopefully engage the VM engineering staff, via the forum staff, with Arris.  I am surprised to see that there has been no mention on this board of users from other ISPs who are suffering the exact same issues with their modems, so, this may come as a surprise to some, and possibly old news to others.

So, the short story ........

The Hub 3 / Compal CH7465-LG (TG2492LG) & Hiton CGNV4 modems are Intel Puma 6 / 6 Media Gateway (MG) based modems.  These modems exhibit high latency to the modem and high latency thru the modem.  The latency affects all IPV4 and IPV6 protocols, so it will be seen on every internet application and game.  The basic cause is the processing of the data packets thru a CPU software based process instead of thru the hardware processor / accelerator.  It appears that a higher priority task runs periodically, causing the packet processing to halt, and then resume.  This is observed as latency in applications and in ping tests to the modem and beyond.  For the last several weeks, Hitron, along with Intel and Rogers Communications in Canada have been addressing the latency issue within the Hitron CGNxxx series modems.  To date, only the IPV4 ICMP latency has been resolved.  Although this is only one protocol, it does show that a Puma 6MG modem is capable of using the hardware processor / accelerator with good results.  Currently Rogers is waiting for further firmware updates from Hitron which should include an expanded list of resolved protocol latency issues.  For Arris modems, "Netdog" an Arris engineer indicated last week that Arris was onboard to address the issue for the Arris SB6190 modem.  That should be considered as good news for any Arris modem (read Hub 3) user as Arris should be able to port those changes over to other Puma 6/6MG modems fairly quickly.  This is not a trivial exercise and will probably take several weeks to accomplish.  Note that there is no guarantee at this point that it is possible to shift all packet processing to the hardware processor / accelerator without suffering from any packet loss side effects.  Time will tell if all of the technical issues can be resolved with the current hardware included in the Puma 6/6MG chipset.  Last night, Netdog loaded beta firmware on selected test modems on the Comcast Communications network.  As this was only done last night, it's too soon to tell what this version resolves and if it was successful or not.  Netdog has contacts with staff at Comcast, Rogers, Charter and Cox Communications to fan out beta versions and modifications for testing.  I'd say its time to add Virgin Media and/or Liberty Global to that group as well.

Recent activity:

Approx three weeks ago a DSLReports user, xymox1 started a thread where he reported high latency to an Arris SB6190 and illustrated that with numerous MultiPing plots.  This is the same latency that I and other users with Rogers communications have been dealing with for months so it came as no surprise.  As well as reporting via that thread, xymox1 took it upon himself to email several staff members at Arris, Intel, Cablelabs and others.  The result of that campaign was Netdog's announcement, last week, that Arris was fully engaged at resolving the issue.  That has led to last nights release of beta firmware, although as I indicated its too early to determine what the beta firmware resolves, if anything.

The original thread that xymox1 started is here:

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31079834-ALL-SB6190-is-a-terrible-modem-Intel-Puma-6-MaxLinear-mis...

Yesterday, DSLReports issued a news story covering the thread:

https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/The-Arris-SB6190-Modem-Puma-6-Chipset-Have-Some-Major-Issues-138...

Today, Arris responded:

https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Arris-Tells-us-Its-Working-With-Intel-on-SB6190-Puma6-Problems-1...

That response was also picked by Multichannel.com

http://www.multichannel.com/news/distribution/intel-arris-working-firmware-fix-sb6190-modem/409379

This is more news likely to appear in the next few days as additional tech and news staff pick up on this issue.

Hub 3 observations:

Like many others using a Puma 6/6MG modem, Hub 3 users are experiencing latency when they ping the modem, or ping a target outside of the home, game online or use low latency applications.  The common misconception is that this is Buffer Bloat. It's not. Its most likely a case of the packet processing stopping while the CPU processes a higher priority task.  The packet processing is done via the CPU no matter what mode the modem is operating in, modem mode or router mode and no matter what IPV4 or IPV6 protocol is used.  Normally, the latency is just that, latency.  The exception are UDP packets. In this case there is latency and packet loss.  The result of that is delayed and failed DNS lookups, and poor game performance for games that use UDP for player/server comms or player/player comms.

Can this be fixed?

So far, it appears that the answer is yes.  Rogers Communications issued beta firmware to a small group of test modems in October.  This version shifted the IPV4 ICMP processing from the CPU to the hardware processor / accelerator, resulting in greatly improved performance in ping latency.  At the present time we are waiting for the next version firmware which should shift other protocols over to the hardware processor / accelerator.  That can be seen in the following post:

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Getting_connected/message-id/369...

The details and results of last nights beta release to the Comcast group have yet to be seen.

At this point there is enough reading to keep most staff and users busy.  My intention is to post some of the history leading up to this point and instructions on how to detect the latency and packet loss.  This is not thru the use of a BQM.  I had hoped to post this all at once but events are moving much faster than I had thought they would.  For now this should suffice to get the ball rolling.

Below is a link to a post with a couple of HrPing plots from my 32 channel modem to the connected CMTS.  This shows the latency that is observed and reflects what others have posted in this forum using Pingplotter and HrPing.

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31106550-

HrPing is one of the freebie applications that can be used to monitor the latency to and thru the modem. 

Pingplots with Pingplotter which show the latency from my modem to the CMTS can be found in the first two to three rows of my online image library at Rogers Communications, located below.  They are essentially what the BQM would look like if you were able to zoom into the plot to the point where you could see the individual ping spikes.  Those ping spikes are common to Puma 6 and Puma 6MG modems.

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/media/gallerypage/user-id/829158

 [MOD EDIT: Subject heading changed to assist community]

[Loui79]

Going by the number of posts on here of people asking when the updates are coming and the ones saying they've got the update, I'd say the likelihood of everyone getting the update next week is slim to none.

[donniem]

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@ILuvNips wrote:

So have they reneged on the dates? Certainly looks like it. 

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Multiple times, we were meant to receive a patch months ago. 

[ILuvNips]

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@donniem wrote:

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@ILuvNips wrote:

So have they reneged on the dates? Certainly looks like it. 

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Multiple times, we were meant to receive a patch months ago. 

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Shouldn't have really come as a surprise really. I have to admit, apart from the admins here and maybe a few people in the UK call centres everybody else in Virgin simply don't realise or weren't told that they work in custoner services . Shocking really .

[apspillane]

Hi, first time post so please be gentle.......

I had the VIVID 350 service installed  last week, and since install I have nothing but issues from Virgin which I think are related to the crappy Hub.

I am currently on firmware 9.1.116.603

I constantly have issues with loss of Internet, even though devices are connected to the hub. When I have internet loss there seems to be an issue with "WPS ", which I have now disabled to see if this fixes things. I have signed up to "thinkbroadbands " monitoring tool and I have recorded the last few days below.

I have been onto VM who have split my 2.4ghz and 5ghz into two separate SSID.

I`m not sure if the problems I`m having are related to the Hub or the service into my address.

I`m going to get onto customer support today ( again ).

Does anyone know what cancellation period is following a new install  ?? Thinking of leaving already as I cannot put up with such poor quality broadband.

Would a 3rd party router and Superhub ( any suggestions )  in Modem mode make any difference ?

Any help / advice or support would be great - ( Sorry if in the wrong forum )

[ILuvNips]

First thing to do is to ask CS is you are in a utilisation affected area and if you are ask how long it has been going on (start date) and what the next review date is. This should give you some sort of idea of what might be going on. Next thing is to post your router downstream and upstream stats and have a look at your network logs to see if there are any continuing errors.

Signing up for monitoring BQM is also a good step so as soon as you have some date post that up.

If you are a new customer I think I'm correct in saying you have 14 days to leave penalty free, after that it will be a pain.

[Luke_113]

Nah, just needs to raise a Cisas case, to date anyone who mentions the Intel Puma 6 chipset and that VM have known about the issue since trial, pushed ahead none the less, here we are today, publically denying the issue still, and quietly rolling out a firmware update to attempt to hide/fix the problem, however to date I've not seen anyone fail with a case when they mention Intel Puma 6 as the issue.

[Loui79]

If you're still connected to the hub then it sounds like its on Virgin's side.
Not sure of cancellation time but if you've just signed up and you're having problems network side, a bit of info: they're not quick to fix anything.

[apspillane]

I have been on to CS and they are sending an engineer out on Wednesday. They state that there are NO utilisation faults in my area ( Billing Area 20 ).

I was told that as my service was installed on 5th June I have 14 working days to cancel without fee ( 22nd June ).

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID

1	298750000	1.5	38	256 qam	17
2	322750000	1	38	256 qam	20
3	314750000	1.4	38	256 qam	19
4	306750000	1.4	38	256 qam	18
5	290750000	1.5	38	256 qam	16
6	282750000	1.7	38	256 qam	15
7	274750000	1.7	38	256 qam	14
8	266750000	2.2	38	256 qam	13
9	258750000	2.2	38	256 qam	12
10	250750000	2.5	38	256 qam	11
11	242750000	2.5	38	256 qam	10
12	234750000	3	38	256 qam	9
13	226750000	3.4	38	256 qam	8
14	218750000	3.5	38	256 qam	7
15	210750000	3.9	38	256 qam	6
16	202750000	4.4	38	256 qam	5
17	194750000	4.5	40	256 qam	4
18	186750000	4.6	40	256 qam	3
19	178750000	4.9	40	256 qam	2
20	170750000	5	40	256 qam	1

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors

1	Locked	38.9	5	0
2	Locked	38.9	4	0
3	Locked	38.9	5	0
4	Locked	38.9	5	0
5	Locked	38.9	7	0
6	Locked	38.9	12	0
7	Locked	38.9	12	0
8	Locked	38.9	7	0
9	Locked	38.9	5	0
10	Locked	38.6	8	0
11	Locked	38.9	9	0
12	Locked	38.6	17	0
13	Locked	38.9	18	0
14	Locked	38.9	12	0
15	Locked	38.9	27	0
16	Locked	38.9	8	0
17	Locked	40.3	11	0
18	Locked	40.3	13	0
19	Locked	40.3	19	0
20	Locked	40.9	38	0

[apspillane]

Upstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID

1	39400000	32.8	5120	64 qam	50
2	25800000	31.5	5120	64 qam	52
3	32600000	32	5120	64 qam	51
4	46200000	33.5	5120	64 qam	49

Upstream bonded channels

Channel Channel Type T1 Timeouts T2 Timeouts T3 Timeouts T4 Timeouts

1	ATDMA	0	0	1	0
2	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
3	ATDMA	0	0	0	0
4	ATDMA	0	0	0	0

Network Log

Time Priority Description

2018-06-05 11:56:37.00	Warning!	MDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
2018-06-05 11:57:39.00	notice	SW Download INIT - Via Config file
2018-06-05 12:00:09.00	Error	Disruption during SW download - Power Failure
2018-06-05 12:00:14.00	notice	SW Download INIT - Via Config file
2018-06-05 12:08:43.00	notice	SW download Successful - Via Config file
2018-06-05 12:49:16.00	critical	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
2018-06-07 12:11:47.00	notice	Unit has been restored to factory defaults from a software issued command;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
1970-01-01 00:01:28.00	Warning!	MDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
1970-01-01 00:01:28.00	Warning!	Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
2018-06-08 13:33:58.00	critical	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
2018-06-08 13:34:46.00	critical	Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
1970-01-01 00:01:26.00	Warning!	Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
1970-01-01 00:01:26.00	Warning!	MDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
2018-06-08 13:40:53.00	critical	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
2018-06-08 13:41:40.00	critical	Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
2018-06-08 13:44:40.00	Warning!	Lost MDD Timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
2018-06-08 13:44:40.00	Warning!	MDD message timeout;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
2018-06-10 11:01:19.00	critical	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
2018-06-11 06:45:32.00	Error	DHCP RENEW sent - No response for IPv4;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;
1970-01-01 00:01:38.00	critical	No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

I`m desperate to get this sorted soon as I don`t want to end up in a contract for a service that doesn`t work.

Would a 3rd party router help ( Superhub in modem mode ? ) or would I still get the same problems.

I have already posted some info from BQM but I don`t know how to interpret the data ( I have lots of red blocks - Packet loss ???? )

[nad223]

I am currently on firmware 9.1.116.603