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Hub 3 / Compal CH7465-LG (TG2492LG) and CGNV4 Latency Cause

Datalink
Up to speed

Good Day Ladies and Gentlemen,

Greetings from the other side of the pond, so to speak.  Over the last few weeks I've been perusing various user forums across North America and Europe for issues related to Intel Puma 6 modem latency.  Of those forums, your Hub 3 stands out as yet another Puma 6 based modem where users see continuous latency no matter what site is used or what online game is played. Considering all of the problems that are on the go, the following information should be of interest to all Hub 3, Compal CH7465-LG and Hitron CGNV4 modem users.  There is much more to post regarding this, so this is a start, to alert VM users as to the real cause of the latency and hopefully engage the VM engineering staff, via the forum staff, with Arris.  I am surprised to see that there has been no mention on this board of users from other ISPs who are suffering the exact same issues with their modems, so, this may come as a surprise to some, and possibly old news to others.

So, the short story ........

The Hub 3 / Compal CH7465-LG (TG2492LG) & Hiton CGNV4 modems are Intel Puma 6 / 6 Media Gateway (MG) based modems.  These modems exhibit high latency to the modem and high latency thru the modem.  The latency affects all IPV4 and IPV6 protocols, so it will be seen on every internet application and game.  The basic cause is the processing of the data packets thru a CPU software based process instead of thru the hardware processor / accelerator.  It appears that a higher priority task runs periodically, causing the packet processing to halt, and then resume.  This is observed as latency in applications and in ping tests to the modem and beyond.  For the last several weeks, Hitron, along with Intel and Rogers Communications in Canada have been addressing the latency issue within the Hitron CGNxxx series modems.  To date, only the IPV4 ICMP latency has been resolved.  Although this is only one protocol, it does show that a Puma 6MG modem is capable of using the hardware processor / accelerator with good results.  Currently Rogers is waiting for further firmware updates from Hitron which should include an expanded list of resolved protocol latency issues.  For Arris modems, "Netdog" an Arris engineer indicated last week that Arris was onboard to address the issue for the Arris SB6190 modem.  That should be considered as good news for any Arris modem (read Hub 3) user as Arris should be able to port those changes over to other Puma 6/6MG modems fairly quickly.  This is not a trivial exercise and will probably take several weeks to accomplish.  Note that there is no guarantee at this point that it is possible to shift all packet processing to the hardware processor / accelerator without suffering from any packet loss side effects.  Time will tell if all of the technical issues can be resolved with the current hardware included in the Puma 6/6MG chipset.  Last night, Netdog loaded beta firmware on selected test modems on the Comcast Communications network.  As this was only done last night, it's too soon to tell what this version resolves and if it was successful or not.  Netdog has contacts with staff at Comcast, Rogers, Charter and Cox Communications to fan out beta versions and modifications for testing.  I'd say its time to add Virgin Media and/or Liberty Global to that group as well.

Recent activity:

Approx three weeks ago a DSLReports user, xymox1 started a thread where he reported high latency to an Arris SB6190 and illustrated that with numerous MultiPing plots.  This is the same latency that I and other users with Rogers communications have been dealing with for months so it came as no surprise.  As well as reporting via that thread, xymox1 took it upon himself to email several staff members at Arris, Intel, Cablelabs and others.  The result of that campaign was Netdog's announcement, last week, that Arris was fully engaged at resolving the issue.  That has led to last nights release of beta firmware, although as I indicated its too early to determine what the beta firmware resolves, if anything.


The original thread that xymox1 started is here:

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31079834-ALL-SB6190-is-a-terrible-modem-Intel-Puma-6-MaxLinear-mis...


Yesterday, DSLReports issued a news story covering the thread:

https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/The-Arris-SB6190-Modem-Puma-6-Chipset-Have-Some-Major-Issues-138...


Today, Arris responded:

https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Arris-Tells-us-Its-Working-With-Intel-on-SB6190-Puma6-Problems-1...


That response was also picked by Multichannel.com

http://www.multichannel.com/news/distribution/intel-arris-working-firmware-fix-sb6190-modem/409379

This is more news likely to appear in the next few days as additional tech and news staff pick up on this issue.


Hub 3 observations:

Like many others using a Puma 6/6MG modem, Hub 3 users are experiencing latency when they ping the modem, or ping a target outside of the home, game online or use low latency applications.  The common misconception is that this is Buffer Bloat. It's not. Its most likely a case of the packet processing stopping while the CPU processes a higher priority task.  The packet processing is done via the CPU no matter what mode the modem is operating in, modem mode or router mode and no matter what IPV4 or IPV6 protocol is used.  Normally, the latency is just that, latency.  The exception are UDP packets. In this case there is latency and packet loss.  The result of that is delayed and failed DNS lookups, and poor game performance for games that use UDP for player/server comms or player/player comms.


Can this be fixed?

So far, it appears that the answer is yes.  Rogers Communications issued beta firmware to a small group of test modems in October.  This version shifted the IPV4 ICMP processing from the CPU to the hardware processor / accelerator, resulting in greatly improved performance in ping latency.  At the present time we are waiting for the next version firmware which should shift other protocols over to the hardware processor / accelerator.  That can be seen in the following post:

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Getting_connected/message-id/369...

The details and results of last nights beta release to the Comcast group have yet to be seen.

At this point there is enough reading to keep most staff and users busy.  My intention is to post some of the history leading up to this point and instructions on how to detect the latency and packet loss.  This is not thru the use of a BQM.  I had hoped to post this all at once but events are moving much faster than I had thought they would.  For now this should suffice to get the ball rolling.

Below is a link to a post with a couple of HrPing plots from my 32 channel modem to the connected CMTS.  This shows the latency that is observed and reflects what others have posted in this forum using Pingplotter and HrPing.

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31106550-

HrPing is one of the freebie applications that can be used to monitor the latency to and thru the modem. 

Pingplots with Pingplotter which show the latency from my modem to the CMTS can be found in the first two to three rows of my online image library at Rogers Communications, located below.  They are essentially what the BQM would look like if you were able to zoom into the plot to the point where you could see the individual ping spikes.  Those ping spikes are common to Puma 6 and Puma 6MG modems.

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/media/gallerypage/user-id/829158

 

 

 [MOD EDIT: Subject heading changed to assist community]

4,478 REPLIES 4,478

RhysT88
Tuning in
I made a complaint a while ago and they’ve told me they’ve closed it as it’s to do with the WiFi and my house.

Doesn’t explain why I’ve always had great internet ever since it was first installed in our house and why it’s been shockingly poor for the last three months.

Surely someone has taken this to ofcom/ombudsmen? Or whoever deals with virgin?


@Andrew-G wrote:

"The new firmware is a complete waste of time."

Looks a tiny, teeny bit better than my Hub 3 BQM - but certainly not good enough to keep me as a customer at the end of my contract in about thirteen months.  Rubbish service from a rubbish company.


Why are you waiting until the end of your contract you can leave now penalty free due to the ongoing issues.

How are you getting ICMP requests through on BT?


@q3dm6 wrote:

How are you getting ICMP requests through on BT?


By not using the BT Home hub Smiley LOL

Most modems you can buy you simply enable ICMP in the GUI, cannot comment on the BT Home Hub simply because I have never used one.


@tommey wrote:

@q3dm6 wrote:

How are you getting ICMP requests through on BT?


By not using the BT Home hub Smiley LOL

 


That. A lot of people say "bah, router still horrible on BT, no better than Virgin!", while totally missing that fact that on BT (and any other ISP *except* VM) you can buy your own good third-party modem, or even great routers with built-in modem.

With VM you have no choice but whatever "cost-effective" vendor-locked garbage they are forcing on you, with "modem mode" being just a bandaid.

 

 


@RidingTheFlow wrote:

@tommey wrote:

@q3dm6 wrote:

How are you getting ICMP requests through on BT?


By not using the BT Home hub Smiley LOL

 


That. A lot of people say "bah, router still horrible on BT, no better than Virgin!", while totally missing that fact that on BT (and any other ISP *except* VM) you can buy your own good third-party modem, or even great routers with built-in modem.

With VM you have no choice but whatever "cost-effective" vendor-locked garbage they are forcing on you, with "modem mode" being just a bandaid.

 

 


If given a choice I for one would not use ISP equipment VM just don't like to give customers a choice..... Thankfully BT and almost every other ISP do allow you as a customer to have a choice....


@RhysT88 wrote:
I made a complaint a while ago and they’ve told me they’ve closed it as it’s to do with the WiFi and my house.

Doesn’t explain why I’ve always had great internet ever since it was first installed in our house and why it’s been shockingly poor for the last three months.

Surely someone has taken this to ofcom/ombudsmen? Or whoever deals with virgin?

Unfortunately it's unlikely Virgin are in breach of anything as latency or packet loss is not guaranteed. You have to bear in mind that these are residential connections.

The only thing we can do is apply pressure collectively until Virgin acknowledges the issue and offers an alternative or cancel your connection with them.

We know know that SH3 is a POS but do ANY of the "Super" Hubs have a decent reliable WiFi? My SH2 is needing a reboot almost every day cos the WiFi goes down...

I'd say they should be in for some misadvertising due to the VIVID Broadband advertising mentioning ping by name.

"We know you want to just get online and play. VIVID runs at the speed of your life, so you could play faster, get rapid updates and stream gameplay in HD with fewer interruptions, on multiple devices (even when the whole house is online). Now, give yourself a high five for low ping..."





Forever waiting for the Hub 4


@WhyLieToUs wrote:

We know know that SH3 is a POS but do ANY of the "Super" Hubs have a decent reliable WiFi? My SH2 is needing a reboot almost every day cos the WiFi goes down...


Switch SH2 to modem mode and buy a good wireless router with proper MIMO antennas.

None of Superhubs have good wifi and all use tiny built-in antennas.

 

@コナー wrote:

I'd say they should be in for some misadvertising due to the VIVID Broadband advertising mentioning ping by name.

Now, give yourself a high five for low ping..."

Nope, no misadvertising goes on here, since no actual numbers being mentioned. "Low" ping means absolutely nothing and not a technical term. Its basically same as putting these "new improved version!" stickers on same variation of cheap products - means nothing, very cheesy practice, but not illegal.