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Hub 3 / Compal CH7465-LG (TG2492LG) and CGNV4 Latency Cause

Datalink
Up to speed

Good Day Ladies and Gentlemen,

Greetings from the other side of the pond, so to speak.  Over the last few weeks I've been perusing various user forums across North America and Europe for issues related to Intel Puma 6 modem latency.  Of those forums, your Hub 3 stands out as yet another Puma 6 based modem where users see continuous latency no matter what site is used or what online game is played. Considering all of the problems that are on the go, the following information should be of interest to all Hub 3, Compal CH7465-LG and Hitron CGNV4 modem users.  There is much more to post regarding this, so this is a start, to alert VM users as to the real cause of the latency and hopefully engage the VM engineering staff, via the forum staff, with Arris.  I am surprised to see that there has been no mention on this board of users from other ISPs who are suffering the exact same issues with their modems, so, this may come as a surprise to some, and possibly old news to others.

So, the short story ........

The Hub 3 / Compal CH7465-LG (TG2492LG) & Hiton CGNV4 modems are Intel Puma 6 / 6 Media Gateway (MG) based modems.  These modems exhibit high latency to the modem and high latency thru the modem.  The latency affects all IPV4 and IPV6 protocols, so it will be seen on every internet application and game.  The basic cause is the processing of the data packets thru a CPU software based process instead of thru the hardware processor / accelerator.  It appears that a higher priority task runs periodically, causing the packet processing to halt, and then resume.  This is observed as latency in applications and in ping tests to the modem and beyond.  For the last several weeks, Hitron, along with Intel and Rogers Communications in Canada have been addressing the latency issue within the Hitron CGNxxx series modems.  To date, only the IPV4 ICMP latency has been resolved.  Although this is only one protocol, it does show that a Puma 6MG modem is capable of using the hardware processor / accelerator with good results.  Currently Rogers is waiting for further firmware updates from Hitron which should include an expanded list of resolved protocol latency issues.  For Arris modems, "Netdog" an Arris engineer indicated last week that Arris was onboard to address the issue for the Arris SB6190 modem.  That should be considered as good news for any Arris modem (read Hub 3) user as Arris should be able to port those changes over to other Puma 6/6MG modems fairly quickly.  This is not a trivial exercise and will probably take several weeks to accomplish.  Note that there is no guarantee at this point that it is possible to shift all packet processing to the hardware processor / accelerator without suffering from any packet loss side effects.  Time will tell if all of the technical issues can be resolved with the current hardware included in the Puma 6/6MG chipset.  Last night, Netdog loaded beta firmware on selected test modems on the Comcast Communications network.  As this was only done last night, it's too soon to tell what this version resolves and if it was successful or not.  Netdog has contacts with staff at Comcast, Rogers, Charter and Cox Communications to fan out beta versions and modifications for testing.  I'd say its time to add Virgin Media and/or Liberty Global to that group as well.

Recent activity:

Approx three weeks ago a DSLReports user, xymox1 started a thread where he reported high latency to an Arris SB6190 and illustrated that with numerous MultiPing plots.  This is the same latency that I and other users with Rogers communications have been dealing with for months so it came as no surprise.  As well as reporting via that thread, xymox1 took it upon himself to email several staff members at Arris, Intel, Cablelabs and others.  The result of that campaign was Netdog's announcement, last week, that Arris was fully engaged at resolving the issue.  That has led to last nights release of beta firmware, although as I indicated its too early to determine what the beta firmware resolves, if anything.


The original thread that xymox1 started is here:

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31079834-ALL-SB6190-is-a-terrible-modem-Intel-Puma-6-MaxLinear-mis...


Yesterday, DSLReports issued a news story covering the thread:

https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/The-Arris-SB6190-Modem-Puma-6-Chipset-Have-Some-Major-Issues-138...


Today, Arris responded:

https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Arris-Tells-us-Its-Working-With-Intel-on-SB6190-Puma6-Problems-1...


That response was also picked by Multichannel.com

http://www.multichannel.com/news/distribution/intel-arris-working-firmware-fix-sb6190-modem/409379

This is more news likely to appear in the next few days as additional tech and news staff pick up on this issue.


Hub 3 observations:

Like many others using a Puma 6/6MG modem, Hub 3 users are experiencing latency when they ping the modem, or ping a target outside of the home, game online or use low latency applications.  The common misconception is that this is Buffer Bloat. It's not. Its most likely a case of the packet processing stopping while the CPU processes a higher priority task.  The packet processing is done via the CPU no matter what mode the modem is operating in, modem mode or router mode and no matter what IPV4 or IPV6 protocol is used.  Normally, the latency is just that, latency.  The exception are UDP packets. In this case there is latency and packet loss.  The result of that is delayed and failed DNS lookups, and poor game performance for games that use UDP for player/server comms or player/player comms.


Can this be fixed?

So far, it appears that the answer is yes.  Rogers Communications issued beta firmware to a small group of test modems in October.  This version shifted the IPV4 ICMP processing from the CPU to the hardware processor / accelerator, resulting in greatly improved performance in ping latency.  At the present time we are waiting for the next version firmware which should shift other protocols over to the hardware processor / accelerator.  That can be seen in the following post:

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/forums/forumtopicpage/board-id/Getting_connected/message-id/369...

The details and results of last nights beta release to the Comcast group have yet to be seen.

At this point there is enough reading to keep most staff and users busy.  My intention is to post some of the history leading up to this point and instructions on how to detect the latency and packet loss.  This is not thru the use of a BQM.  I had hoped to post this all at once but events are moving much faster than I had thought they would.  For now this should suffice to get the ball rolling.

Below is a link to a post with a couple of HrPing plots from my 32 channel modem to the connected CMTS.  This shows the latency that is observed and reflects what others have posted in this forum using Pingplotter and HrPing.

https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31106550-

HrPing is one of the freebie applications that can be used to monitor the latency to and thru the modem. 

Pingplots with Pingplotter which show the latency from my modem to the CMTS can be found in the first two to three rows of my online image library at Rogers Communications, located below.  They are essentially what the BQM would look like if you were able to zoom into the plot to the point where you could see the individual ping spikes.  Those ping spikes are common to Puma 6 and Puma 6MG modems.

http://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/media/gallerypage/user-id/829158

 

 

 [MOD EDIT: Subject heading changed to assist community]

4,478 REPLIES 4,478

Vivid Gamer is no longer sold though.... 😛

Doesn't matter - the contract is still valid, and if they're following their own contract, then they're breaching. 

Why the hell am I being charged so high for it I'd it is not being sold anymore..
Contract is a Contract.. I cannot change it but they obviously can.. I should have the right to say I wish to leave in 2 days.. notice and do not charge me if that is the case.

Does that mean they have taken it off and making up the rules as they go along..

The whole point if the Vivid 200 Gamer package to skip the Traffic Management and to have that slight boost in Upload.

Most desirable for the ping to be lower and more stable than it was and is right now.

According to Speedtest(dot)net
My Down is 220Mbps Up is 21Mbps ping is 23.

According to my External Router.. that is aimed at gamers..

(ASUS GT-AC5300) it has its own little firebrick. Well I call it that. It shows me on my graphs that the ping jumps quite frequently to 88ms to 160ms every few seconds.

It shows avarages and so on.
But not only that is concerning me.. is the amount of jumps tracert gives me.

To just Google.co.uk is take's as many as 27 hops.
To virgin's own homepage. . I expect it to be less than 7 hops. but it is about 15 - 16 hops.

I have changed the Modem to Modem Only and used the SH3 in router mode with WiFi turned off. Same results. And I cannot understand it at all. With changing the wan port to a ethernet port instead..

This Asus router has ethernet Wan.. as well as a dedicated Wan Port.

I am shocked and discusted in Virgin Media. A friend next door is also on Virgin and let me do tests on his line and he is using a sh2ac jammy bugger.. but the results was different ping was stabler than mine.. was consistent. But to the VM site hops was between 2 and 4. Google was about the same..

Used the same devices to test it on (Asus GT-AC5300) modem mode and router mode. On his connection. Was consistent.

So what the hell Virgin. .

I have been with Virgin since Telewest days.. back in 1997 and I truly miss the old Motorola Surfboard Modem.. I used to have before all this all-in-one solution came in.. with the That's design a Intergrated Router into a Modem.. but without any thought and what the customer wants..

Since the Superhub came out there has been nothing but trouble.

Superhub the first ever one.. was a blessing but, disappointing. When I got it I thought wow I can chuck my Belkin Router out.. so I did and a fewdays after.. I had to buy another one and so many Engineer Visits..

When the Superhub 2 came out.. I did not chuck it away that time.. and rightfully so. Then I bought a Asus RT-AC68U. done me good.. but still same thing.. more engineer visits..
Then I got my hands on the SH2AC and sure it was slightly better than the previous ones.. I still had to put it in modem mode.. and still had more engineer visits.

But the SH3.0 came out.. I wanted it because of the more improved specs.. and more channel bonds and such..

But this one was more problematic and with the whole "port flapping" issue so many months of hassle. I almost left Virgin Media and looking for alternatives. . Looked at HyperOptic. . But found out they won't be in my area for some time.. and still are not..

Wouldn't mind a 1Gig down and up.. with near Zero Ping...

But anyway. This wall of text is getting to the point of the story.

I have had so many engineer visits I have had over 300is give or take 50ish either way Visits! Since the Superhub came out..

Virgin Media is Unreliable and my experiences aren't very good ones.

Subcontractors that are not from Virgin Media came out and installed when we moved to my current house. And quite a few of the engineers was nice but, very Evasive on the issues I was experiencing.

A couple blamed it on a Staple in there Coax Cable the they Installed.. (subcontractors installed).

When I had my TiVo Boxes replaced for V6's they almost dropped my 50" TV. . Because they would not listen that the cabinet it was on (can not be moved).

They even charged me £100 twice to sort out the staples in the cable.. that they installed.

They mention about power levels and SNR''s but like Irritable Bowel Sysndrome..
(IBS) doctors give us if they can't be bothered to actually check what is wrong..

SNR and Power levels are the new (IBS).
To me. Mostly what we are given over the phone is (BS) and in person.. in my own experiences.

I have spent too much time TroubleShooting for Virgin Media than actually enjoy the service..
We are there Guinea Pigs.. or Rats to Test on.. but no actually help or Resolution.

I really do think the Creator of the thread and all the Guinea Pigs that have brought the problems up on the VM and all concerning for the problem to be brought to there attention but still nothing is being said nothing is being actually done.
But I thank them for seeing the problem but we can do tiddly squat if Our own IS don't do nothing about it.

The problems have existed for Years... not months..

I love how Virgin Always Edits my Posts!
They don't like the truth, of how rubbish there service actually is.
And Zero Quality of Service.

Long as we are Online that is enough.. be glad you have a Internet Connection at all. Is Virgins way of dealing with Customers.

(Note to the Mods): I have sent a few screenshots and even gone on my own back to save the whole page so if this is altered I have a shadow copy that has been sent to Ofcom. For there own copy. As I am not afraid to stand up and be heard. And word of advise. Is show your Bosses this Thread. And Please Ask yourself is this Fair that your own Customers are shouting out for a fix and for me a fix and for Compensation for your Neglect!

We all are hoping for a fix or a replacement..

I don't think many of us would mind a superhub 4.. or a Legacy Modem.. a new one from Virgin.. so we can make our own **** mind up if we want to connect our own Router to it.

Please don't take us all for right Novices. .

--

I am sorry to all the people that are viewing my posts.. but they are taking us all for right Novices.. and still no comments from the relevant people.

I can't help my out bursts as I am disabled mental health issues.. and this ISP has left me with Sleepless nights and such.

Money grabbing..

 

 

[MOD EDIT: Inappropriate language removed, please review the Forum Guidelines]

mrpauljames
Tuning in

So I called virgin again, to see if I could speak to Tristan directly (the guy who has all the SH2AC). 

BTW - if you want to speak to someone in england, then call their cancellation line. They don't seem to care if you're not calling them to actually cancel and you actually have a chance of getting through to someone relevant.

Ended up speaking to a second line network tech, explained my situation and said he understands, has heard about this issue and told me (and I'm paraphrasing here) "look on the forums as this issue is dealt with on there"... I informed him of the 250 off page topic, and 2.5k replies, and how there's no official response from VM regarding the issue.

He told "unofficially" that apparently it's due to an ongoing lawsuit in the USA, regarding this issue. VM are waiting for a result from that lawsuit before they take action regarding the issues... Interesting development.

Anyway - hopefully getting a call back from this Tristan bloke, i don't care if I have to downgrade my speed, I just want a solid freaking connection.

To the best of my knowledge Tristan is away till the 27th Dec. However there is someone who is standing in for him until his return

Ah cool, thanks for the heads up, have to wait and see. Fortunately a colleague may be able to help me out anyway - he has an old super hub 2 ac, after recently being upgraded. He's aware of the issues, but not concerned as he doesn't game so isn't really impacted.

If he gives me his old SH2 I should be able to activate it right...? (fingers crossed)

"If he gives me his old SH2 I should be able to activate it right...?"

Bless your naive li'l cotton socks haha. Nope. I was told I could activate an SH2ac after threatening to cancel my installation. The day came, the engineers called to have it set up and were told no. Can't be be done. The Hub hadn't been used, it hadn't even been out of the box so the MAC was not registered to a user at all. Still told no. I was literally promised they'd activate it by tech support.

Morale of the story? Expect the worst.

*sigh*.. I wonder if they're trying to drive customers to desperation, or just doing accidentally...