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1gig, hub 5, unusable for online gaming, packet loss and latency issues

JuicyGoomba
On our wavelength

Hello,

I've been with Virgin for almost 4 years now, as they are unfortunately the only provider nearby that does high speed broadband.

I say unfortunately, because I have nothing but issues both with dropouts and online gameplay since joining Virgin. The Hub 3 and Hub 4 were both awful even in modem mode and contributed their fair share towards the issues. I've recently managed to get upgraded to the Hub 5, but aside from the dropouts being fixed, the issues with latency and packet loss continue.

Online gaming is virtually impossible now. Even when the latency is good, I get constant packet loss varying from 1%-5%. 1% is noticeable, especially on competitive games, and 5% is just a waste of time. I setup a BQM a couple of days ago along with the Hub 5, the connection seemed relatively stable for the first day outside of a single large latency spike, but the packet loss could still be seen. As the days have gone by, the packet loss has only increased in number and frequency, as has the latency issues.

My current network setup is as barebones as can be. I previously had the Hub 4 in modem mode, connected to a Nest Wifi router as it was noticeably more reliable for everything. I've since been trialing the Hub 5 as the only router, and all I have connected to it is 2x phones via wifi, 1x Fire Stick by ethernet, and 2x PCs by ethernet. In fairness to the Hub 5, it is actually capable of functioning as a decent router, and is comparable to the Nest Wifi in performance (likely helped by no longer using the god awful Intel Puma chip in the Hub 3/4).

I figured only having the Virgin router and a barebones setup would at least help with finding the issues here. The packet loss is just as bad as with the Hub 3/4, as is the latency spikes. As I said before, the only improvement so far is that I don't have dropouts as far as I can see. The Hub 4 in modem mode still required an almost daily power cycle to maintain some degree of stability.

I have shared the BQM below. I'm currently debating switching to BT's slow copper FTTC for the sake of making online gameplay usable. I play a lot of competitive shooters, and it is literally killing me. Even online coop games were unplayable with the Hub 4 due to the dropouts. My neighbour is 3 doors down connected to the same line, and he has all of the same issues.

I've tried all the usual fault reporting processes via the My Virgin area, but the whole process is as useless as it is frustrating.

I have also attached my logs from the router below as well, if that helps.

62ff60fbe6b29bb5b2b9a41c586220ff74851a48

Spoiler
Upstream:

Upstream bonded channels

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID
049600000435120QAM 641
143100000425120QAM 642
23660000041.55120QAM 643
330100000415120QAM 644
423600000415120QAM 645

Upstream bonded channels

Channel Channel Type T1 Timeouts T2 Timeouts T3 Timeouts T4 Timeouts
0ATDMA0000
1ATDMA0000
2ATDMA0000
3ATDMA0000
4ATDMA0000
Spoiler
Downstream:

Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) SNR (dB) Modulation Channel ID
1330000000342QAM 25625
21380000006.943QAM 2561
31460000006.743QAM 2562
41540000006.443QAM 2563
51620000005.843QAM 2564
61700000005.643QAM 2565
71780000005.543QAM 2566
81860000005.543QAM 2567
91940000005.643QAM 2568
102020000005.343QAM 2569
112100000005.243QAM 25610
122180000004.342QAM 25611
132260000003.242QAM 25612
14234000000342QAM 25613
152420000002.842QAM 25614
162500000002.742QAM 25615
172580000002.742QAM 25616
182660000002.642QAM 25617
192740000002.642QAM 25618
202820000002.642QAM 25619
212900000002.742QAM 25620
222980000002.742QAM 25621
233060000002.742QAM 25622
243140000002.842QAM 25623
253220000002.942QAM 25624
263380000003.243QAM 25626
273460000003.143QAM 25627
283540000002.742QAM 25628
293620000002.442QAM 25629
303700000002.142QAM 25630
313780000001.942QAM 25631

Downstream bonded channels

Channel Locked Status RxMER (dB) Pre RS Errors Post RS Errors
1Locked42127050
2Locked4315220
3Locked4319470
4Locked4319120
5Locked4327700
6Locked436614124
7Locked4333600
8Locked4331490
9Locked4331230
10Locked4327180
11Locked4336170
12Locked4233700
13Locked4239670
14Locked4245250
15Locked4259270
16Locked4265810
17Locked4275390
18Locked4279130
19Locked4271870
20Locked4282660
21Locked42104880
22Locked42139100
23Locked42130190
24Locked42112730
25Locked42121520
26Locked43156910
27Locked43147510
28Locked42182800
29Locked42205810
30Locked42253150
31Locked42330290
Spoiler
Router network log for today:

Time Priority Description
13-03-2023 16:12:36warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 16:12:36noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 15:35:26noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 15:35:26warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 15:35:23errorDHCP RENEW WARNING - Field invalid in response v4 option;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 14:52:57warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 14:52:57noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:49:29noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:49:29warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:42:13warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:42:13noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:11:43warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:11:43noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:08:58noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 13:08:58warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 12:43:13warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 12:43:13noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 12:12:45noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 12:12:45warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 11:12:55noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 11:12:55warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 10:16:46noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 10:16:46warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 09:14:06noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 09:14:06warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 08:26:01warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 08:26:01noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 06:24:52warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 06:24:52noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 11 13; New Profile: 12 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 06:14:45warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 06:14:45noticeUS profile assignment change. US Chan ID: 6; Previous Profile: 12 13; New Profile: 11 13.;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;
13-03-2023 05:08:19warningDBC-REQ Mismatch Between Calculated Value for P1.6hi Compared to CCAP Provided Value;CM-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CMTS-MAC=**:**:**:**:**:**;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.1;


 

58 REPLIES 58

JuicyGoomba
On our wavelength

Also forgot the config logs:

 

Spoiler

General Configuration

Network accessMaximum Number of CPEsBaseline PrivacyDOCSIS ModeConfig file
Allowed
1
Enabled
3.1
fd;kfoA,.iyewrkldJKDHSUBs

Primary Downstream Service Flow

SFIDMax Traffic RateMax Traffic BurstMin Traffic Rate
5086
1200000450 bps
42600bytes
0 bps

Primary Upstream Service Flow

SFIDMax Traffic RateMax Traffic BurstMin Traffic RateMax Concatenated BurstScheduling Type
5085
55000270 bps
42600bytes
0 bps
16320bytes
Best Effort

 

 

A better gamester experience might have been found with a Hub 3 on M125 or M250.

The Hub4 & Hub5 use a mix of DOCSIS 3.0 and 3.1 channels, the file transfer bandwidth good, the bad news is it comes at a cost of significantly worse Latency and high Jitter.

 

run these test to see if it upstream issue
https://packetlosstest.com/
https://devicetests.com/packet-loss-test
---------------------------------------------------------------

Ooooh thank you for the reminder! I'd been using PLT before setting up BQM.

I consistently get packet loss when uploading, so all an upstream issue. I've confirmed this on the network graphs in games such as BF2042, all of the packet loss is on outgoing. It generally always happens during in-game interactions with other players. If I try to heal someone, it generally fails half the time as the action is lost due to packet loss. Same goes for gunshots etc.

When it's "stable", it's more of a case of late packets. When it's bad, usually during times where the red spikes are on BQM but not strictly limited to, I average 10-20 lost upload packets in a 1 minute Warzone test on packetlosstest.com

If I load up 2042 right now I can guarantee it'll be about the same average of 20 packets a minute lost.

JuicyGoomba_0-1678734842675.png

 

Okay just did another quick test for you all. It's an absolute joke currently. This is with me swapping the Nest router in just now and the result is exactly the same. The issue is with the connection BEYOND my home. Whether that's the cabinet? Who knows.

What makes things worse is that you can see the big packet loss spikes on the BQM chart in the OP, but they're happening during the day when literally everyone else in my street is at work and the network is at it's lowest usage.

 

As a quick edit, asked the Mrs how her gaming has been going since the Hub 5 came. Says it's the same constant lag spikes and she feels all the packet loss and spikes even in light coop gaming. Just hasn't mentioned it until I asked about it.

Im sure they will get in touch soon on this forum and arrange an engineer to come out and tinker around. But it may end up being a case of a slight improvement only. Most likely yet another case of:

1) Get used to it (the latency that is, VM should fix the packet loss as that's unacceptable)

2) Leave and switch providers (ideally FTTP if you can)

JuicyGoomba
On our wavelength
Seems to be the gist of it sadly, and unfortunately openreach only "plan" to put FTTP in our area. It's either Virgin 1gig or BT FTTC 80mbps (not even sure it can reach the full 80mbps).

At the moment I'd be able to accept the latency hit if the packet loss issue was fixed, as you say it's completely unacceptable from any service in 2023.

I have an open complaint so will be calling them tomorrow but not holding my breath for a resolution. I'd happily stay with Virgin for half the ridiculous £62/month, then at least I can add a BT line for gaming only.

For us the https://packetlosstest.com/ provides spurious results.

We can run a test and see no packet loss, change to a more distant server and have total packet loss.

https://packetlosstest.com/  behaves like it has a low permitted round trip time and after that cut off falsely reports packet loss.

It's been very accurate through my testing. Packet loss test website and in game graphs both correlate the exact same experience and the same average upload packet loss. 

To test further I asked a friend to do it from the PC at his business, and the results showed no packet loss regardless of server or setup at the same time as I was reporting 1-2% loss.