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mrfoster
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎03-08-2012
Helpful Answer

Power Hungry V+ Box And Hidden Fees - BUYER BEWARE

I did some research and discovered that the V+ Box (Samsung) is consuming 20W on standy - which translates into circa £15-£20 worth of electricity per year.  This is not acceptable and should have been red flagged by Virgin a long time ago - nevermind, I decided to get rid.

 

I contacted Virgin and asked to drop down to non PVR box - which would save me £60 in annual subscription - and also the £20 in electric.  The chap was very helpful and keen for me to use their self install option.  All good so far - the new box arrived, I installed, sent the old one back using the returns service.  The new Cisco box, when shutdwon completely, consumes 0.2W - fantastic.

 

I now today receive the bill - guess what - a £20 for and I quote "Installation Charge" - for me installing it!!

 

So I ring Virgin and get told that:

  • A letter would have been sent out outlining the fee - no such letter was received.  
  • Can I get a copy of that letter - nope, we can't do that.
  • I was told that the fee was outlined in my terms - could they show me where online - no.
  • They then admitted that the CSR who took my call made a mistake by not telling me the fee.
  • Would they be prepared to rectify this mistake by refunding the charge - no.

 

I am going to send this same post to OFCOM, Watchdog & Moneysaving experts - I understand that services have to be paid for, but not being able to demonstrate clear visibility of these charges represents mis selling in my book.  They could have quite easily charged me £300 - and claimed the same terms applied.  The principle of the non disclosure or ability to prove the source of cost is seriously at fault here.

 

 

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Tech Wizard II
nodrogd
Posts: 2,669
Registered: ‎21-04-2010

Re: Power Hungry V+ Box And Hidden Fees - BUYER BEWARE

Firstly, the £20 is a delivery charge for the box and the return packing. It is not an installation charge. However they should have informed you of this when ordering.

 

Secondly, the V+ boxes are now old technology, having been around for 20 odd years, no longer manufactured and being phased out to be replaced by the TiVO.

Cable customer since 1993. Services: XL TV, Sky Sports & Movies (2xV+), L Telco, 60M BB, Virgin PAYG Mobile
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mrfoster
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎03-08-2012

Re: Power Hungry V+ Box And Hidden Fees - BUYER BEWARE

100% - they should have told me about the fee - wanted to let everybody else aware that these fees may not be mentioned by Virgin when on the sales call...
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Whiz Kid III
mike_gain
Posts: 1,081
Registered: ‎08-01-2011

Re: Power Hungry V+ Box And Hidden Fees - BUYER BEWARE


nodrogd wrote:

Firstly, the £20 is a delivery charge for the box and the return packing. It is not an installation charge. However they should have informed you of this when ordering.

 

Secondly, the V+ boxes are now old technology, having been around for 20 odd years, no longer manufactured and being phased out to be replaced by the TiVO.


To be fair the Samsung V+ is only a few years old (can't be more than 4 years old). Also the TiVo runs at 18W on standby and 20W when not. So, while I think this is still more than reasonable for what it is doing, a TiVO is unlikely to be a solution to the OP's power usage problem.

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mrfoster
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎03-08-2012

Re: Power Hungry V+ Box And Hidden Fees - BUYER BEWARE


mike_gain wrote:
To be fair the Samsung V+ is only a few years old (can't be more than 4 years old). Also the TiVo runs at 18W on standby and 20W when not. So, while I think this is still more than reasonable for what it is doing, a TiVO is unlikely to be a solution to the OP's power usage problem.

Wow - 18W on standby - is that shut down completely?
The new Cisco HD Box uses 0.2W after shutdown (see standby menu)
My new Panny Frewview PVR consumes 0.2W also when asleep and waiting for a record timer event to wake.
If the lowest the Tivo will get down to is 18W then Virgin are supplying a product that breaks regs laid down by the National Measurement Office:
http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/nmo/docs/eup/leaflets/simple-set-top-boxes.pdf

 

 

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Pro II
BenMcr
Posts: 10,271
Registered: ‎11-08-2009

Re: Power Hungry V+ Box And Hidden Fees - BUYER BEWARE

[ Edited ]

mrfoster wrote:

If the lowest the Tivo will get down to is 18W then Virgin are supplying a product that breaks regs laid down by the National Measurement Office:

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/nmo/docs/eup/leaflets/simple-set-top-boxes.pdf


 

 

No it doesn't http://efficient-products.defra.gov.uk/cms/assets/Guidance-Notes-3rd-tranche-March2011.pdf

 

This regulation applies to Simple set-top boxes (SSTB). A SSTB is a stand-alone
device which, irrespectively of the interfaces used,


(a) has the primary function of converting standard-definition (SD) or high-definition
(HD), free-to-air digital broadcast signals to analogue broadcast signals suitable for
analogue television or radio;
(b) has no ‗conditional access‘ (CA) function
(c) offers no recording function based on removable media in a standard library
format.


A SSTB can be equipped with the following additional functions and/or components
which do not constitute a minimum specification of an SSTB:
(a) time-shift and recording functions using an integrated hard disk;
(b) conversion of HD broadcast signal reception to HD or SD video output;
(c) second tuner.

 

Doesn't apply to TiVo as it decodes more than just free-to-air channels and has Conditional Access

 

TiVo would be a 'Complex Set Top Box' which hasn't yet had regulations fully defined and ratified http://www.eceee.org/Eco_design/products/complex_set_top_boxes/

**********************************
I work for Virgin - but all opinions posted here are my own
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Whiz Kid III
mike_gain
Posts: 1,081
Registered: ‎08-01-2011

Re: Power Hungry V+ Box And Hidden Fees - BUYER BEWARE


mrfoster wrote:

mike_gain wrote:
To be fair the Samsung V+ is only a few years old (can't be more than 4 years old). Also the TiVo runs at 18W on standby and 20W when not. So, while I think this is still more than reasonable for what it is doing, a TiVO is unlikely to be a solution to the OP's power usage problem.

Wow - 18W on standby - is that shut down completely?
The new Cisco HD Box uses 0.2W after shutdown (see standby menu)
My new Panny Frewview PVR consumes 0.2W also when asleep and waiting for a record timer event to wake.
If the lowest the Tivo will get down to is 18W then Virgin are supplying a product that breaks regs laid down by the National Measurement Office:
http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/nmo/docs/eup/leaflets/simple-set-top-boxes.pdf

 

 


The standby on the TiVo only shuts down the video output ports I think so it is still buffereing content from all 3 tuners and carrying out it's other tasks all of which I deem to be useful so I don't mind the power usage...others have their own opinions on this.

 

I don't beleive the TiVo or Sky boxes fall under the regulations that your link points to, whether that is right or wrong is probably up for debate. I think it's because they are supplied as part of a contract with either Sky or VM whereas freeview boxes can be bought off the shelf (or something along those lines).

 

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mrfoster
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎03-08-2012

Re: Power Hungry V+ Box And Hidden Fees - BUYER BEWARE

Can anyone confirm the lowest possible standby consumption for the TiVo box?
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Whiz Kid III
mike_gain
Posts: 1,081
Registered: ‎08-01-2011

Re: Power Hungry V+ Box And Hidden Fees - BUYER BEWARE


mrfoster wrote:
Can anyone confirm the lowest possible standby consumption for the TiVo box?

18 Watts

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mrfoster
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎03-08-2012

Re: Power Hungry V+ Box And Hidden Fees - BUYER BEWARE

Understand that the TIVO is continually pulling content down - but how about an option that allows the user to save power and sacrifice a little functionality.  The Panasonic PVR does just this - lose the DLNA server and you can shut the thing down to 0.2W.

 

Maybe the consumer should be made aware - especially when Virgin are supposed to be a green ambassador....

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