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pffvsgab
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Virgin say I can't use own router with static IP

I wanted to double check if this is right because it seems surprising. I need a line with a static IP, so I called Virgin Business. But they have said that with a static IP it is not possible to switch the Virgin router to modem mode, nor can they provide a modem so that we can run a proper Cisco/Juniper router. Can this be true? So all businesses that have a Virgin Business uplink are ditching their expensive Cisco and Juniper routers to use some inferior unknown free router from Virgin?

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Sephiroth
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Re: Virgin say I can't use own router with static IP


pffvsgab wrote:

I wanted to double check if this is right because it seems surprising. I need a line with a static IP, so I called Virgin Business. But they have said that with a static IP it is not possible to switch the Virgin router to modem mode, nor can they provide a modem so that we can run a proper Cisco/Juniper router. Can this be true? So all businesses that have a Virgin Business uplink are ditching their expensive Cisco and Juniper routers to use some inferior unknown free router from Virgin?


I can assist!   The static IP is not provided in a conventional manner for VMB over residential.  It is a piece of engineered convolution, imo.

Before I explain that, you'll possibly have understood that the VMB service at your home uses the same network, cables and indeed upstream downstream frequencies as everyone else connected to the optical node you share with them.

So, VM provide you with a Hitron CGNv4 gateway (which I have) or one of their Superhub models.  The initial DOCSIS ranging occurs on exactly the same basis for VMB modems as for residential modems.  Namely, on initialisation of a connection, your MAC address is captured and you are given a dynamic IP addresswhich will be sticky until you are moved to a different line card or CMTS (which rarely happens but can).

Once your connection is up and running, additional code in the gateway's firmware sets up a GRE tunnel back to VMB wherein your Static IP address(es) are available at the proxy end.  With that, you can use a decent firewall or router to deal with traffic on a given static IP address in any way that you wish.

If you put the gateway into modem mode, the additional firmware facilities are turned off and you can't open a GRE Tunnel from your attached router back to VMB because the necessary identifiers will be missing.

All businesses who subscribe to VMB over the residential network face the above facts.

Hope that helps.

 

Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)


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Superuser
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Re: Virgin say I can't use own router with static IP

This is a residential Forum, so the Virgin Forum Team may not be able to answer your question.  However there may be some community members who can assist.  To be honest it does not sound completely correct to me.

Ravenstar68

________________________________________


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Sephiroth
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Re: Virgin say I can't use own router with static IP


pffvsgab wrote:

I wanted to double check if this is right because it seems surprising. I need a line with a static IP, so I called Virgin Business. But they have said that with a static IP it is not possible to switch the Virgin router to modem mode, nor can they provide a modem so that we can run a proper Cisco/Juniper router. Can this be true? So all businesses that have a Virgin Business uplink are ditching their expensive Cisco and Juniper routers to use some inferior unknown free router from Virgin?


I can assist!   The static IP is not provided in a conventional manner for VMB over residential.  It is a piece of engineered convolution, imo.

Before I explain that, you'll possibly have understood that the VMB service at your home uses the same network, cables and indeed upstream downstream frequencies as everyone else connected to the optical node you share with them.

So, VM provide you with a Hitron CGNv4 gateway (which I have) or one of their Superhub models.  The initial DOCSIS ranging occurs on exactly the same basis for VMB modems as for residential modems.  Namely, on initialisation of a connection, your MAC address is captured and you are given a dynamic IP addresswhich will be sticky until you are moved to a different line card or CMTS (which rarely happens but can).

Once your connection is up and running, additional code in the gateway's firmware sets up a GRE tunnel back to VMB wherein your Static IP address(es) are available at the proxy end.  With that, you can use a decent firewall or router to deal with traffic on a given static IP address in any way that you wish.

If you put the gateway into modem mode, the additional firmware facilities are turned off and you can't open a GRE Tunnel from your attached router back to VMB because the necessary identifiers will be missing.

All businesses who subscribe to VMB over the residential network face the above facts.

Hope that helps.

 

Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

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legacy1
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Re: Virgin say I can't use own router with static IP

The only why to do it some what reliable is to ask VM for a subnet of 5 IP's a 255.255.255.248 even then there are limitations.

Just roll on  Dynamic WAN IP less pain.

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pffvsgab
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Re: Virgin say I can't use own router with static IP

Thanks. I understand that the static IP is actually got by the Virgin Media Business hardware tunneling back to Virgin Media. And you seem to be confirming that what Virgin Business are telling me is in fact correct, that the Hitron router can't be switched to modem mode with a static IP.

I suppose we can then connect the Cisco/Juniper gear behind the Hitron router, just seems not the most efficient solution.

Thank you for the help, much appreciated.

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Sephiroth
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Re: Virgin say I can't use own router with static IP

The default condition of the Hitron gateway in router mode is that DHCP is disabled.

This is something for you to bear in mind when configuring your router to behave as you need. But, I didn't try routing Static IP data; I wanted to keep NAT/DHCP on in the own router so that I could connect devices that didn't have a Static IP address set into their configuration. Such devices then use the dynamic IP address (i.e. outside the tunnel) for their connection.



Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

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dx3553
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Re: Virgin say I can't use own router with static IP

Thank you Sephiroth regarding your explanation about how Business Static IP works.

We just have our VM Business broadband installed today and the guy just could not get the static IP to work (the GRE does register, but could not route to the internet).  This piece of convoluted technology was obviously not highlighted to us during the sales process.

On complaining this to Virgin, they then told me that the Static IP is not that stable and may face frequent disconnections and so completely defeat the purpose.

Kind of fortunately that the dynamic IP is semi static (or sticky as you called it) so hopefully that is sufficiently sticky such that the changes are minimal while they come up with a proper solution to the very simple problem (could just get their DHCP/DNS server to always assign the fix IP - so not sure why they gone through this length to implement their 'static ip'  over sticky IP solution).

 

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Sephiroth
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Re: Virgin say I can't use own router with static IP


dx3553 wrote:

Thank you Sephiroth regarding your explanation about how Business Static IP works.

We just have our VM Business broadband installed today and the guy just could not get the static IP to work (the GRE does register, but could not route to the internet).  This piece of convoluted technology was obviously not highlighted to us during the sales process.

On complaining this to Virgin, they then told me that the Static IP is not that stable and may face frequent disconnections and so completely defeat the purpose.

Kind of fortunately that the dynamic IP is semi static (or sticky as you called it) so hopefully that is sufficiently sticky such that the changes are minimal while they come up with a proper solution to the very simple problem (could just get their DHCP/DNS server to always assign the fix IP - so not sure why they gone through this length to implement their 'static ip'  over sticky IP solution).

 


They shouldn't have told you that.  My ewxperience is that it is stable.  Indeed in my employer's organisation, we had to use a VMB service for WiFi; the Tunnel provided on the SH1 (not Hitron) has been perfectly stable for two years now.

Convoluted it is but it works.  My guess is that they never configured the tunnel at the VM end to recognise your MAC address.  Only a guess.  Still it will work faster with the semi-sticky IP address.

 

Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

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dx3553
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Re: Virgin say I can't use own router with static IP

Thank you Sephiroth.

Unfortunately we have a Hitron here.  Will give the sticky ago and will try the GRE static IP if we have to.

 

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Sephiroth
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Re: Virgin say I can't use own router with static IP

The Hitron is fine. It's important to ensure that the GRE Tunnel established by the installing engineer is responded to at the other end. If that's the problem, this needs is a competent engineer to come back and reinstall.

That said, I would have expected the install engineer to have got that rightt that right.

And furthermore, on my PC I had to set up the correct IP address in the TCP/IP section of the network card setup. Likjewise in the iPAD. The IP address in the DHCP setup for the Hitron would be the Gateway address in the TCP/IP setup; You would have been given your IP address range and one of those addresses (and subnet) would go into the TCP/IP address.

None of this is in the stupid manual they provided. How they dare call themselves "Business" is beyond me.

Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

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