Menu
Reply
On our wavelength
  • 12
  • 0
  • 5
Registered: a month ago
Message 21 of 36 (354 Views)

Re: Intel Puma 6 Chipset issues

There's nothing wrong with bringing attention to the arguments and starting a debate in a free society so thanks for engaging and for your reply. Virgin need to be more transparent then if they want to satisfy people that they are doing everything possible.

In fact OFCOM translate UK and EU legislation into code and compel industry to act accordingly so they are not without powers to force Virgin to actually do things they don't want to do. If UK legislation says we need to be competitive then OFCOM will regulate the industry accordingly. Also human rights legislation comes under OFCOMs purview so they may very well cover some aspects of this debate.

The interests of citizens is what matters as taken from the code document. Do we not have a right to expect and benefit from competitive download and upload speeds AND low latency internet connections as others are perfectly able to get?

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0012/40431/broadband_speeds_code_june_2015.pdf

"Ofcom’s principal duty under the Communications Act 2003 is, in carrying out its functions, to further the interests of citizens in relation to communications matters and to further the interests of consumers in relevant markets, where appropriate by promoting competition, by having regard, in particular, to the interests of those consumers in respect of choice, price, quality of service and value for money. Ofcom is particularly required to secure the availability throughout the United Kingdom of a wide range of electronic communications services, which includes broadband services."

Reply
0 Kudos
Knows their stuff
  • 1.26K
  • 69
  • 276
Registered: ‎16-03-2014
Message 22 of 36 (332 Views)

Re: Intel Puma 6 Chipset issues


colinsuk wrote:

 

Another reason to complain to OFCOM is to counter Virgin's protectionist stance on this, if indeed they would delay DOCSIS 3.1 implementation for no good reason, then the real reason might be to force customers to use slower connections longer than necessary in order to protect the cable TV business from large increases in steamed programming from other providers and that leads to a serious accusation of stifling competition that OFCOM will need to investigate.


Virgin are now providing a 350Mbps service on DOCSIS 3.0. This is enough to accommodate 14 UHD/4K streams of 25Mbps, I doubt many households will need to run that many concurrent streams but the possibility is there. As such I don't think Ofcom will see any merit in the claim that Virgin are forcing people to use 'slow' connections to protect the TV business from streaming.

Fibre optic
  • 309
  • 12
  • 108
Registered: ‎31-07-2015
Message 23 of 36 (316 Views)

Re: Intel Puma 6 Chipset issues

Complain to OFCOM? Very funny.

I still remember how recently complaint was brought to OFCOM that mobile providers sell "Unlimited" tariffs which, in fact, have *limit* in small print. OFCOM "investigated". ISPs said "ah well, by Unlimited we meant you can use it anywhere, not unlimited traffic". OFCOM - "ah, its alright then".

True story.

 

Reply
0 Kudos
On our wavelength
  • 12
  • 0
  • 5
Registered: a month ago
Message 24 of 36 (285 Views)

Re: Intel Puma 6 Chipset issues

The Pessimist Sees Difficulty In Every Opportunity. The Optimist Sees The Opportunity In Every Difficulty.” - Winston Churchill

Lets just bring things back to reality and get rid of this Fear, uncertainty and doubt [FUD] that you and others have added. FYI I've actually had messages of support for the one thing I'm suggesting we collectively ask for which is "To have the ability to attach an approved modem to the Virgin Infrastructure". Everything else are issues for consideration another day and were not actually mentioned in my complaint to OFCOM.

It's not an impossible ask, it's only impossible at the moment due to lack of folks concurring that it would solve many problems for the consumer namely to fix Virgin Media's poor selection of router over and over again and no way out of the endless nightmare and "just switch to modem mode" nonsense!!! Now we find that even doing that is pointless. One guy told me his vmng300 modem outperforms all current hubs in modem mode which is crazy!!!

The person who says "I don't vote in elections because it's pointless" rightly deserves a lot of criticism for not participating at all in democracy. That type of person can't after the election validly complain about what the winning government that is elected does or does not do.

Same goes for these forums if you refuse to make your complaint to OFCOM then you should stop complaining about the routers in the forums in just the same way because, just the same, you abdicated your vote. In that case do your complaints about this router or that router deserve to be heard or fixed by Virgin? Virgin think not it seems.

Too much apathy is being shown and then in that case the collective fate is chosen and what we get is then rightly deserved. Do nothing and you deserve nothing in return.

Reply
0 Kudos
Alessandro Volta
  • 20.32K
  • 526
  • 3.11K
Registered: ‎01-09-2009
Message 25 of 36 (270 Views)

Re: Intel Puma 6 Chipset issues


colinsuk wrote:

The Pessimist Sees Difficulty In Every Opportunity. The Optimist Sees The Opportunity In Every Difficulty.” - Winston Churchill

[SEPH]: What is the source of this attribution to Churchill?  If you want to put the great man at the front of your proposition in this post, you wouldn't want to carelessly fall at the first hurdle.

Lets just bring things back to reality and get rid of this Fear, uncertainty and doubt [FUD] that you and others have added. FYI I've actually had messages of support for the one thing I'm suggesting we collectively ask for which is "To have the ability to attach an approved modem to the Virgin Infrastructure". Everything else are issues for consideration another day and were not actually mentioned in my complaint to OFCOM.

[SEPH]: A commendable ambition to want modem choice.  But I don't see where OFOCM's remit makes it likely that they'll force VM to change their policy.  I hope that you didn't make the "Churchill" quote to OFCOM. 

It's not an impossible ask, it's only impossible at the moment due to lack of folks concurring that it would solve many problems for the consumer namely to fix Virgin Media's poor selection of router over and over again and no way out of the endless nightmare and "just switch to modem mode" nonsense!!! Now we find that even doing that is pointless.

[SEPH]: Here's where you really do go off into la-la land.  You can ask  - sure.  Do that (no point asking OFCOM though).  Boiling down your argument to bare bones, based on the topic of this thread, you want people to be able to buy a non-Intel Puma 6 gateway device.  The driver for this, should be the thread topic - or is it now a mission of principle on your part?  There is little if any evidence that the Puma 6 chipset issue actually affects a large number of people in terms of their Broadband experience  - mine is not affected at all and my son is a FPS gamer.  That is the sort of thing that will influence VM's decisions. In any case, the upcoming DOCSIS 3.1 will require a new modem/hub device

One guy told me his vmng300 modem outperforms all current hubs in modem mode which is crazy!!!

[SEPH]: This is the sort of crass statement that seriously diminishes your case.  The remark you've made there is un-researched.  The VMNG300 used a 4 x 4 Puma 5 chip.  It cannot have outperformed any later 8 x 4 or 14 x 4 hub in modem mode.  So the remark is indeed crazy.  I see the point you're trying to make - the Puma 5 performs better than the Puma 6.   It doesn't because the VMNG300 can't handle the higher VM tiers; also the SH2/ac use the Broadcomm DOC SIS chip set and in modem mode are excellent devices, though limited by their 8 x 4 configuration.  Also do please take into account that I've had the use of every VM modem/hub up to and including the Hub 3.  The VMNG300 was indeed a much revered device because the SH1 was total crap - except in modem mode which was added to the SH1 several months after it was released as a result of user pressure.  Note - user pressure.

The person who says "I don't vote in elections because it's pointless" rightly deserves a lot of criticism for not participating at all in democracy. That type of person can't after the election validly complain about what the winning government that is elected does or does not do.

[SEPH]: Use of your right to free speech in a democratic society is also use of the right to go off at a tangent. 

Same goes for these forums if you refuse to make your complaint to OFCOM then you should stop complaining about the routers in the forums in just the same way because, just the same, you abdicated your vote. In that case do your complaints about this router or that router deserve to be heard or fixed by Virgin? Virgin think not it seems.

[SEPH]: So now you're telling the good people off for not complaining to OFCOM along your ill-founded basis.  The right to free speech you claimed (for me) in an earlier post applies also to people at large using the forums to voice their concerns at a given situation.  Your point in the above paragraph is that VM are not showing any signs of listening to the complaints about the Hub 3 (in this case).   The "crime" being committed here by VM is their stunning silence on the issue other then what The Register can tease out of them. 

Moving on from that, your argument is that if there is no Puma 6 chip set fix on the horizon, them VM should set its customers free to buy their own hub.  Seems reasonable to me as a general principle but folding OFCOM into that is fanciful. 

Too much apathy is being shown and then in that case the collective fate is chosen and what we get is then rightly deserved. Do nothing and you deserve nothing in return.

[SEPH]: Maybe the way you present the case is the cause of the "apathy".

 


 

Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

Reply
0 Kudos
Fibre optic
  • 309
  • 12
  • 108
Registered: ‎31-07-2015
Message 26 of 36 (262 Views)

Re: Intel Puma 6 Chipset issues

[ Edited ]

colinsukI would not discourage you by any means, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

Because OFCOM has nothing to do with people not being able to choose their own modem, and they will not interfere. They might have only if Virgin actually was a global monopoly and you had no choice of other ISP. Currently you have a choice of different modem/service by choosing a different ISP.

 

 

Reply
0 Kudos
Tuning in
  • 23
  • 0
  • 0
Registered: ‎14-03-2016
Message 27 of 36 (127 Views)

Re: Intel Puma 6 Chipset issues

In theory, could a customer wishing to change router use ANY Superhub 2, if they could get one? Or are there credentials inside that have to be set up by virgin?

Reply
0 Kudos
Alessandro Volta
  • 20.32K
  • 526
  • 3.11K
Registered: ‎01-09-2009
Message 28 of 36 (121 Views)

Re: Intel Puma 6 Chipset issues


quietriot1983 wrote:

In theory, could a customer wishing to change router use ANY Superhub 2, if they could get one? Or are there credentials inside that have to be set up by virgin?


In theory, yes.  But that's of no use to use because in rigid practice the "inside credentials" are the obstacle.  If you have an original SH2 supplied to you by VM, the may agree to activate it for you.  Any SH2 acquired by other means is technically unlawful because the SH2 remains VM's property at all times.  And they won't re-assign an illicitly acquired SH2.

Anyway, the Hub 3 in performance terms real life isn't as bad as some doomsayers claim - at least on the basis of my own experience and that of my gaming son.

 

Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

Reply
0 Kudos
Fibre optic
  • 490
  • 9
  • 116
Registered: ‎22-06-2012
Message 29 of 36 (106 Views)

Re: Intel Puma 6 Chipset issues


Sephiroth wrote: Anyway, the Hub 3 in performance terms real life isn't as bad as some doomsayers claim - at least on the basis of my own experience and that of my gaming son.

 


Oooh, I wouldn't say that.... TCP to google.

googleTCP.png

--------------------------------------------------------
Look behind you, a three-headed monkey
Reply
0 Kudos
Alessandro Volta
  • 20.32K
  • 526
  • 3.11K
Registered: ‎01-09-2009
Message 30 of 36 (101 Views)

Re: Intel Puma 6 Chipset issues


Guybrush85 wrote:

Sephiroth wrote: Anyway, the Hub 3 in performance terms real life isn't as bad as some doomsayers claim - at least on the basis of my own experience and that of my gaming son.

 


Oooh, I wouldn't say that.... TCP to google.

googleTCP.png


But that's not a real world experience example.  What it boils down to is that the 2 or 3 ms average latency added by the Hub 3 is either experience affecting or not.  In most cases not; in the cases where it might be experience affecting, it's where the latency spike coincides with a particular user interaction.  As I said, in my house, the CoD gaming son never has a latency issue.

That's not to say that VM should be let off the hook on this sub-standard device.  Though for me, it's particularly sub-standard in terms of not allowing the DHCP range to be chosen; not allowing DNS to be chosen and other defects by way of dumbing down the allowed router functions.

 

Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

Reply
0 Kudos