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storrm
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Hub 3 slower in Modem only mode

I've been using my new Hub 3 for a few weeks now and up until tonight everything was fine, but now it seems the wireless connection is intermittent so I've rolled out my ASUS RT-N66u and put the Hub 3 into Modem mode.  It all seems to be working ok (just watching out for the Ethernet port problem thats been reported) but for some reason I dont get the same throughput using the Hub 3 with my ASUS as I do with the Hub 3 directly connected to my PC or using the Hub 3 in router mode.

5889244604

this is the speed I get from my Hub 3 in router mode or Modem mode connected directly to my PC

5889282425

And this is the speed I get when using my ASUS RT-N66u connected to the Hub 3 running in modem mode.  Initially I thought it looks like a problem with my ASUS, but according to the specs, the RT-N66u can push over 700Mbps from WAN to LAN so I cant see why that would be the bottleneck.  Does anyone have any ideas why I wouldn't be seeing the same throughput as I do when directly connected to the Hub 3?

If it matters, I'm running AsusWRT-Merlin firmware version 380.57

Thanks.

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storrm
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Re: Hub 3 slower in Modem only mode

Just an update for people who are interested.  Although I didnt have any QoS enabled on my router, I did have a feature called "Enable IPTraffic (per IP monitoring)" which allows me to work out who in my house is using all the bandwidth.  A standard router generally tells you only the total inbound/outbound, not on a per-user basis which is the reason why I enabled the feature.  When this feature is enabled the NAT Acceleration feature of the router is disabled, which causes the drop in speed.  By disabling IPTraffic and re-enabling HW NAT Acceleration, I'm managing to get higher (but not quite full speed) connections :-

NAT Acceleration enabledNAT Acceleration enabled

Its possible that a later generation of this router (e.g. RT-AC68u) with more powerful, dual-core processors wont suffer with this bottleneck.


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keithdunnett
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Re: Hub 3 slower in Modem only mode

Educated guess from DD-WRT on a handful of routers older and newer: QoS is my prime suspect. The quoted throughput is usually the speed a router can blindly shift data from one side to another with no packet inspection or rewriting. Even using NAT on the stock firmware likely won't reach that. Any sort of heavy duty firewalling or QoS, you've no chance (whether or not your limits are set such as for QoS to do very much, it doesn't have the grunt to process the throughput.

Precise numbers forgotten, but I've an R7000 that usually runs DD-WRT (until Virgin screwed up an update and stopped responding to DHCP) with fairly comparable specs, WAN/LAN throughput of up to around 800Mbit. It cheerfully handles a 150Mbit connection without QoS (not touching 200Mbit until it's possible without a Hub3.0, myself) but falls some way short when QoS is turned on.

Some years ago, the same was true of a DIR-615 from the 10Mbit days, which handled 70Mbit without QoS and about 10Mbit with. The differential will be less than that on modern routers, but it still isn't sufficient for an overclocked R7000 to handle QoS on 150Mbit so the same is likely to apply to the Asus RT-N66U. I suspect that it doesn't much matter which firmware you're using, in this case.

Turning off QoS is unlikely to hurt - at best, it can do some good for latency by rate-limiting and prioritising your outgoing packets if you limit your throughput to less than the line will support, keeping the outgoing packet queue on your router rather than upstream. Downstream QoS is something of a misnomer even on theoretically perfect hardware; it rate-limits the amount of data the router will process for a given client or protocol but doesn't control what's queued on the wire. Thus, if yours is an average domestic use case, you're likely better off without. An exception might be, say, a busy shared house with a mix of p2p, web, gaming and VoIP where the intention is to rate-limit p2p and share a contended resource fairly. If you control what the connection is being used for at any given time, you should lose nothing by turning it off. Condolences on the Hub3.0, maybe if you ask nicely they'll swap it out for a more tested proven model.






 

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storrm
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Re: Hub 3 slower in Modem only mode

Thanks for responding Keith.  Although I've not reset my router to defaults, QoS is definitely disabled therefore and no other type of packet inspection is enabled.  I don't see any reason why the max throughput cannot be achieved as its far lower than the max capable of the router itself. 

qos.jpg

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Sephiroth
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Re: Hub 3 slower in Modem only mode

My RT-N66U is at my other house so can't get it till early January to try on my VM system here (Wokingham).

Current setup here is 200meg, modem mode, ASUS RT-AC68U; full speed 24/7. So when I do swap the N66U in, with stock firmware and basically set to defaults, I can report back. If I remember to do it, that is. Maybe bump the thread now & again!

Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

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storrm
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Re: Hub 3 slower in Modem only mode

Just an update for people who are interested.  Although I didnt have any QoS enabled on my router, I did have a feature called "Enable IPTraffic (per IP monitoring)" which allows me to work out who in my house is using all the bandwidth.  A standard router generally tells you only the total inbound/outbound, not on a per-user basis which is the reason why I enabled the feature.  When this feature is enabled the NAT Acceleration feature of the router is disabled, which causes the drop in speed.  By disabling IPTraffic and re-enabling HW NAT Acceleration, I'm managing to get higher (but not quite full speed) connections :-

NAT Acceleration enabledNAT Acceleration enabled

Its possible that a later generation of this router (e.g. RT-AC68u) with more powerful, dual-core processors wont suffer with this bottleneck.

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dombera
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Re: Hub 3 slower in Modem only mode

Generally speaking SuperHub 3 is affected by the Puma 6 chip.
This is a massive issue and I am wondering when Virgin is going to take an action once FW is ready by intel/arris (hopefully).

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Gaming-Support/Hub-3-Compal-CH7465-LG-TG2492LG-amp-CGNV4-Latency...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/03/intel_puma_chipset_firmware_fix/
https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31122204-SB6190-Puma6-TCP-UDP-Network-Latency-Issue-Discussion~sta...

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Sephiroth
Alessandro Volta
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Re: Hub 3 slower in Modem only mode

This Puma 6 thing should not be over-hyped. Nothing of the sort affects my modem mode operations on the Hub 3.

Seph - ( DEFROCKED - My advice is at your risk)

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legacy1
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Re: Hub 3 slower in Modem only mode


Sephiroth wrote:
This Puma 6 thing should not be over-hyped. Nothing of the sort affects my modem mode operations on the Hub 3.


Yes it does.

 

 

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