Menu
Reply
  • 9
  • 0
  • 1
Irving
Tuning in
1,578 Views
Message 1 of 12
Flag for a moderator

2.4GHz wifi loses connection to the internet

This becoming an increasing frustrating problem.  For the record I am an experienced IT Consultant and a radio engineer in days past, so I like to think I know something about the subject!

For the last couple of weeks, intermittently but becoming increasingly more frequent, my SuperHub 2 seems to internally lose the connection between the 2.4GHz wifi and the Internet.

A few facts:

SuperHub is in my study on 1st floor, away from any other equipment.  When 2.4GHz wifi is active I'm getting -35dBm on phone (Wifi Analyser app) in study and -65 to -70dBm in other rooms on same floor and in 2nd floor master bedroom..  A range extender gives me -70dBm or better on ground floor.

100Mbps WAN connection, seems solid enough, no downtime since upgrade from 50M on 4th Jan.

Main PC and 2 Raspberry PIs in study are hardwired, no issues.

5GHz is unaffected and rock solid (so far).  On my smartphone Speedtest gives me between 90 and 105Mbps when adjacent to hub and typically 80Mbps on 2nd floor, both give 6Mbps uplink.

On 2.4GHz wifi, even adjacent to hub, Speedtest 'only' gives me typically 35-40Mbps and occasionally as low as 2Mbps whereas I used to get typically 53Mbps when I was on 50M service, so go figure Smiley Surprised I do get 6Mbps uplink.

I have around 9 devices on 2.4GHz wifi, all experience same problem simultaneously so its NOT a device problem.

There is no interference from neighbours wifi, they all sit on channel 1 or 11, I'm on channel 6 and nothing else appears there.

A spectrum scanner confirms there are no other high-level non-wifi signals that could be interfering.

The problem

So...  the problem is that the 2.4GHz wifi signal is there and devices remain connected but they all lose traffic to the internet and to each other.  So when the issue occurs my hardwired PC cannot see the wifi connected printer, for example, though the printer still thinks its connected.  The only reliable way to resolve this is to hard reboot the SuperHub by powering it off and on again.

Its as if the SuperHub software is losing the internal routing between the 2.4GHz wifi and the rest of the hub.

Reading the forum, it seems others are having similar, though not identical, problems.

Tags (1)
  • 9
  • 0
  • 1
Irving
Tuning in
1,568 Views
Message 2 of 12
Flag for a moderator

Re: 2.4GHz wifi loses connection to the internet

Added information...

Just dropped out again.  Wifi signal still there, but cannot ping any wifi device on the network FROM WITHIN THE HUB!

So definitely looks like a software routing issue, or a faulty wireless internal connectivity

[edit]  Enabling a guest 2.4GHz network then disabling it seemed to kick the main network back into life..  I'll do some more testing on this next time it drops out...

0 Kudos
Reply
  • 95
  • 4
  • 26
zx128k
Up to speed
1,460 Views
Message 3 of 12
Flag for a moderator

Re: 2.4GHz wifi loses connection to the internet

As my posts have disappeared, basically there is no routing issue. The signal strength is to low.  Each network adapter will auto configure it's speed with you router.  Basically Wifi at my house picks various different speeds for no reason, even at the router.  

Tablet get 72Mbps @ 2.4ghz, this is approximately 36-48Mbps in speed tests. 150Mbps @ 5ghz.

Phone gets 72Mbps @ 2.4ghz. 

PC next to the router gets 144Mbps on 2.4ghz.

PC down stairs gets 216Mbps on 2.4ghz.  No support for 5ghz.

Laptop gets 150Mbps at 2.4ghz.

For me this is with a normal signal strength and SNR.  Signal well above 67dBm and SNR greater than 25dB.  5ghz is faster. Seems there are no changes on the router that can change this outcome. You can't force 40 Mhz channel for example, it's automatic but they recommend using in the 2.4ghz range a 20Mhz channel anyways. Doing speed tests on a wifi link that is 72Mbps as not going to yield maximum performance.  Your going to get 36-48Mbps. Overheads in wifi drop the speed to approximately 65% of the link speed. My guess is like me bucause of neighbouring 2.4Ghz networks, the router speeds are lower than 5ghz. 

Your range extender is a bad idea if it's a single band one.  Wifi speeds will be halved.  Dual band ones don't do this.  People complaining about drop outs and other issues are normal with extenders.  Extenders can lose connection for a number of reasons and half their network is unreachable. Changing your Wifi settings is resetting your wifi and forcing your extender to reconnect. There is no routing issue from the information you have given.  You need to troubleshoot correctly. 

The router lacks this option,Changing from 20Mhz to 40Mhz 

 

 

0 Kudos
Reply
  • 9
  • 0
  • 1
Irving
Tuning in
1,453 Views
Message 4 of 12
Flag for a moderator

Re: 2.4GHz wifi loses connection to the internet

I don't know you and you have no idea about my experience and expertise. 

So, I'll just say this...  4 devices within 1m of the router so NO SIGNAL LEVEL, SNR, RANGE EXTENDER, ETC. issues. All can talk to each other, NONE can talk to the baseband side and NONE can be pinged from the router itself.

To add insult to injury when the problem manifested itself again this evening I tried to log in to the router and the UI just hung completely, wouldn't serve up any internal web pages. Yet it was still allowing baseband connectivity to the internet. Had to power off and on to get back in.

Given this is basically a Linux OS internally I still think one or more processes are hanging for some reason. And the only thing that's changed is the WAN speed increase from 50Mbps to 100Mbps. 

0 Kudos
Reply
  • 95
  • 4
  • 26
zx128k
Up to speed
1,446 Views
Message 5 of 12
Flag for a moderator

Re: 2.4GHz wifi loses connection to the internet

Ping will only work from the router if the firewall on the devices don't block icmp.  You can still have issues 1m from the router, noise could be bad.  Sometimes moving a router can help.  Powering the router off has two effects, one fixes some router issues but it also causes devices to reconnect.  Note some wifi devices have bugs that cause the wifi to drop out.  Apple being a good example. Android device need a work around for client roaming.

"All can talk to each other, NONE can talk to the baseband side and NONE can be pinged from the router itself."  Could be an issue with the default gateway IP address.  What do you mean with baseband side?  Note this usually means the original transmission signal that has not be modulated, or has been demodulated to its original frequency. Baseband is a very narrow frequency range. Passband channels are radio frequency channels and LAN/serial connections are Baseband channel.  Do you mean a LAN Ethernet connection?

Are you connecting to the router settings page via wifi or ethernet?  Not getting a webpage could mean an issue router side or a connection issue to the router. "WAN speed increase from 50Mbps to 100Mbps."  Just to confirm this is VM's circuit?  That's what WAN implies to me. Maybe someone from VM can check the WAN side for you.

Does your problem occur the same time every day? Does this just affect 2.4Ghz WIFi (you stated 5Ghz is fine)?  Are Ethernet (cables) based LAN connections fine?

Sounds like your heading towards wanting a router replacement, with what you are stating.  I will try to help you out as best I can but if you want to get a new router, contact VM asap and open a fault with them.

0 Kudos
Reply
  • 9
  • 0
  • 1
Irving
Tuning in
1,438 Views
Message 6 of 12
Flag for a moderator

Re: 2.4GHz wifi loses connection to the internet

Baseband = hardwired LAN

WAN = VM Cable

When Wi-Fi working correctly ping from LAN or from router to all devices is fine.

Currently running a continuous network scan from PC on LAN to all Wi-Fi devices. Every few minutes it loses connection simultaneously to ALL Wi-Fi devices for a few moments (analogous to a 'timed out' on a ping), then recovers. But as time goes on I'm seeing the period of loss increasing; I guess there'll come a point where it drops out completely which is exactly what I've been experiencing. Once that happens only a reboot will resolve and then it'll be OK for an hour or maybe half a day. There is some evidence it depends on traffic volumes as if streaming video it does seem to fail more often, but I haven't proven this yet.

Yes I probably need to get another Superhub or put this in modem mode and use a separate router. Just can't face hours on the phone to VM call centre and their pointless scripted 'diagnostic' sessions which can't/won't address the problem.

 

0 Kudos
Reply
  • 95
  • 4
  • 26
zx128k
Up to speed
1,430 Views
Message 7 of 12
Flag for a moderator

Re: 2.4GHz wifi loses connection to the internet

What about the WiFi devices to the internet?  Turn WPS off it sucks. " Every few minutes it loses connection simultaneously to ALL Wi-Fi devices for a few moments" Could be interference from some source.  Is this on the 2.4Ghz radio on all channels (or just one channel, need to check when it happens) or does this affect the 5Ghz radio channels as well.  Could be the channel your using is getting cross-over from other routers. Can you confirm the LAN connections are fine.

"Once that happens only a reboot will resolve and then it'll be OK for an hour or maybe half a day. There is some evidence it depends on traffic volumes as if streaming video it does seem to fail more often, but I haven't proven this yet."  Are you using bluetooth devices of any kind?  Do drops occur when the micowave oven is on?  When the drops occur, want is the signal strength and the SNR.  Does the SSID disappear?  If most of the bandwidth is being used, packet loss may occur.  Are the tablets and phones losing connection.  Does this happen to the laptops or PC's?

0 Kudos
Reply
  • 9
  • 0
  • 1
Irving
Tuning in
1,421 Views
Message 8 of 12
Flag for a moderator

Re: 2.4GHz wifi loses connection to the internet

The LAN connections are fine and experience no problems or packet loss.

There is nothing to cause interference, no other Wi-Fi (neighbours are too far away and below -85dBm) and there are no other non-Wi-Fi signals as confirmed by my HP spectrum analyser. My brand new microwave doesn't emit anything of note as well as being 20m+ away. No Bluetooth active.  5GHz is not affected and continues to work fine.

If you read what i wrote previously it drops out even when devices are next to hub. Signal level at that point is -35dBm and SSID doesn't go away. Devices already connected stay connected just lose connectivity to internet and LAN, but new devices can't connect.

The Wi-Fi has been fine in its current form for over a year and this problem has only appeared since the upgrade to 100Mbps. IMHO it all points to a throughput-related router software problem.

0 Kudos
Reply
  • 95
  • 4
  • 26
zx128k
Up to speed
1,420 Views
Message 9 of 12
Flag for a moderator

Re: 2.4GHz wifi loses connection to the internet

The problem is only on your 2.4Ghz Wifi from the sounds of it.  You report 5 Ghz is fine and if speed test are fine then everything upstream is.  See you you have 9 devices connected over 2.4Ghz and you have an extender. The use of a range extender can often create a situation where a hidden node problem occurs.  Issues with pings could be down to the hidden node problem. Signal-strength (RSSI) is not an indication of channel congestion.  With lots of wifi devices on the network latency can be in seconds causing pings to time out.  Wifi networks can have an issue call an exposed node problem.

The main symptom of hidden node is reduced throughput over the wireless lan. Because wireless clients could be transmitting at the same time the access point does not receive all the data reducing performance by 40% or more. Because wireless clients are mobile you may encounter a hidden node issue at any time. Many times reports of a slow network will actually be hidden node causing problems.

0 Kudos
Reply
  • 9
  • 0
  • 1
Irving
Tuning in
1,403 Views
Message 10 of 12
Flag for a moderator

Re: 2.4GHz wifi loses connection to the internet

Range extender is off for last test - just using 4 devices (2 laptop, 1 tablet, 1 phone) and not using ping but a little Java app I knocked up that sends a small packet back and forth between two devices. Running 5 copies on main pc, one to each wireless device and the 5th to one of the PIs. Also have 2 laptops using same app between them.

You seem determined to prove its a Wi-Fi usage/configuration issue. I'm convinced it's a hub firmware issue.

0 Kudos
Reply