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wotusaw
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puma 6 latency

24 Downstream 2 Upstream

Gamer vivid. Even with 221/21 speed some pages take a count of 7 to load and gaming 'fps' is a waste of time.puma 6 test 42.jpg

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Forum Team
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Message 2 of 14
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Re: puma 6 latency

Hi wotusaw, 

 

Thanks for getting in touch, I am sorry to see you have been having trouble with your connection.

 

I have taken a look and things seem to be ok from this side. 

 

I am having a little bit of trouble locating your power levels if you could pop them up that would be a great help:

 

192.168.0.1 in the browser, log in  Username is admin and the password will be changeme, unless you have changed it.

Go to Advanced settings.

Go to Network Status, copy the results back here.

 

Are you using a wired or a wireless connection, if wireless try wired. Pop the hub into modem only mode with the computer in safe mode with networking. Let us know if it makes a difference. 

 

Speak to you soon. 

 

Emma


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wotusaw
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Re: puma 6 latency

Thanks for your attention.

 

Please let me know if you are aware of the 'puma 6 chipset' problem. This post informs of the problem. It's a long read..

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r31122204-SB6190-Puma6-TCP-UDP-Network-Latency-Issue-Discussion

Replies to your questions.

No, wired/safe mode with networking no difference. I always use wired connection on pc, btw.

Please find included 'network status' page. 

 

 

 

network status2.jpglong read.

 

 

Thanks once again.

If you wish all the 'network status' pages please let me know.

 

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quonciu
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Re: puma 6 latency

I would be supprised, if they are able to locate their exchanges, Im not even dreaminig about VM pathing their devices

There is no issue, they say when you are trying to explain it to Support 

I found it funny, that for lady from broadband support "broadband service" is about checking mail on outlook.com Smiley Very Happy

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wotusaw
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Message 5 of 14
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Re: puma 6 latency

Yes, lol. I'm aware of the limit to Virgins technical expertise in some cases.

Not their fault as they seem to be geared totally to customer placation which is just the limit of their training. I wouldn't expect them to be able to deal with the details of the 'puma 6 chipset problem'. They are about the delivery of speed and quality with what's being used at the time.

Subtle latency problems wouldn't be on their playlist.

I suspect Virgin will call in some seperate kind of 'Modem/Router dream Team' to deal with this eventually.

I'm just after any advice or help on offer. Only too happy Emma replied. The power observation got me thinking about the 'local area connection thing'.

The whole problem is a complex nightmare for anyone. You only have to read 'Datalinks' post to see that.

Re: Thinking of joining VM, a few question on quality of Broadband for gaming

"The SB6190 updated firmware is a first step in correcting the latency issue.  It does not fix everything, so, there will most likely be more firmware versions produced down the road.  For Intel to distribute the updated firmware to the various manufacturers, they will have to produce an updated SDK for the Puma 6 chipset.  Keep in mind that there are different versions of the chipset, Modems, Telephony modems, Media Gateways and probably others as well.  I don't know if a single SDK covers all of the versions.  If so, then its up to the modem manufacturer to build the operating system from that single SDK to match the targeted chipset.  Some MSOs in the U.S. appear to be prepping firmware versions based on this first (interim) version.  That's interesting given the cost of running their own test programs prior to general release.  My guess is that other MSOs will wait until the dust has finally settled before updating their modems.  If so, that could be weeks or months down the road.    

The lag spikes are continuous throughout the day. Its due to the processing of the data packets thru a software process versus thru the hardware processor that is onboard the chipset. There is handoff from the CPU to the hardware processor for some protocols including VPNs, but, there is a decision that has to be made for just about every packet that traverses thru the modem. This affects all protocols, ICMP, TCP/IP, UDP for both IPV4 and IPV6 for both modes, Gateway (router) mode, and Bridge (modem) mode. This affects everything that you do thru the modem, web cruising, streaming, gaming, data transfer for web storage and countless others. Some applications such as latency intolerant applications (gaming and VOIP) will show the affects more than others. The connection type won't matter, peer to peer, client to server, etc, etc. The problem is in the modem and it doesn't care what mode is used and what the end target IP address is.  The higher the downstream channel count, the worse the latency is thru the modem.  

Here is an example that was posted last year by xymox1 on the DSLReports site. This is a ping to google, but, consider it the same for any and every data packet that you are sending to any site or game server and receiving a response in return. This shows the total two way transit time at each ping spike and buried in the average time.  If you were to drill down into a BQM, down to the millisecond time frame, this is what it would look like.  Because the BQM is so compressed in terms of the timescale, what you really notice is the large, yellow, highly compressed ping plot area that is the result of each of these 100+ millisecond ping times. 

https://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/2292876~5d08b88ef5a074d5bdfb492404ebd827/25817_209

So, sometimes you end up with a reasonable transit time back and forth, and sometimes you wouldn't see the bullet coming at you if you were gaming as the data arrives anywhere from one to three hundred milliseconds too late. Remember that this is all taking place at the millisecond timeframe.  This is only a five minute plot, but, if you continue to ping the target, you will see the same result, on and on and on."

 

Wow! I wish this guy and 'xymox1 were living next to me!! I would be their greatest fan.Smiley Happy

However, they ain't so I've started messing with the 'local area connection gubbings' in a vain and crazy attempt to try and at least knock some of the puma 6 latency into hell. I took the MTU value down to 1458 which seemed to help a tiny little itsy bitsy bit.local area connection 1.jpg

 

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wotusaw
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Message 6 of 14
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Re: puma 6 latency

Yes, lol. I'm aware of the limit to Virgins technical expertise in some cases.

Not their fault as they seem to be geared totally to customer placation which is just the limit of their training. I wouldn't expect them to be able to deal with the details of the 'puma 6 chipset problem'. They are about the delivery of speed and quality with what's being used at the time.

Subtle latency problems wouldn't be on their playlist.

I'm just after any advice or help on offer. Only too happy Emma replied. The power observation got me thinking about the 'local area connection thing'.

Suspect they will call in a 'the modem dream team' to deal with this eventually.

The whole problem is a complex nightmare for anyone. You only have to read 'Datalinks' post to see that.

Re: Thinking of joining VM, a few question on quality of Broadband for gaming

"The SB6190 updated firmware is a first step in correcting the latency issue.  It does not fix everything, so, there will most likely be more firmware versions produced down the road.  For Intel to distribute the updated firmware to the various manufacturers, they will have to produce an updated SDK for the Puma 6 chipset.  Keep in mind that there are different versions of the chipset, Modems, Telephony modems, Media Gateways and probably others as well.  I don't know if a single SDK covers all of the versions.  If so, then its up to the modem manufacturer to build the operating system from that single SDK to match the targeted chipset.  Some MSOs in the U.S. appear to be prepping firmware versions based on this first (interim) version.  That's interesting given the cost of running their own test programs prior to general release.  My guess is that other MSOs will wait until the dust has finally settled before updating their modems.  If so, that could be weeks or months down the road.    

The lag spikes are continuous throughout the day. Its due to the processing of the data packets thru a software process versus thru the hardware processor that is onboard the chipset. There is handoff from the CPU to the hardware processor for some protocols including VPNs, but, there is a decision that has to be made for just about every packet that traverses thru the modem. This affects all protocols, ICMP, TCP/IP, UDP for both IPV4 and IPV6 for both modes, Gateway (router) mode, and Bridge (modem) mode. This affects everything that you do thru the modem, web cruising, streaming, gaming, data transfer for web storage and countless others. Some applications such as latency intolerant applications (gaming and VOIP) will show the affects more than others. The connection type won't matter, peer to peer, client to server, etc, etc. The problem is in the modem and it doesn't care what mode is used and what the end target IP address is.  The higher the downstream channel count, the worse the latency is thru the modem.  

Here is an example that was posted last year by xymox1 on the DSLReports site. This is a ping to google, but, consider it the same for any and every data packet that you are sending to any site or game server and receiving a response in return. This shows the total two way transit time at each ping spike and buried in the average time.  If you were to drill down into a BQM, down to the millisecond time frame, this is what it would look like.  Because the BQM is so compressed in terms of the timescale, what you really notice is the large, yellow, highly compressed ping plot area that is the result of each of these 100+ millisecond ping times. 

https://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/2292876~5d08b88ef5a074d5bdfb492404ebd827/25817_209

So, sometimes you end up with a reasonable transit time back and forth, and sometimes you wouldn't see the bullet coming at you if you were gaming as the data arrives anywhere from one to three hundred milliseconds too late. Remember that this is all taking place at the millisecond timeframe.  This is only a five minute plot, but, if you continue to ping the target, you will see the same result, on and on and on."

 

Wow! I wish this guy and 'xymox1 were living next to me!! I would be their greatest fan.Smiley Happy

However, they ain't so I've started messing with the 'local area connection gubbings' in a vain and crazy attempt to try and at least knock a little off the puma 6 latency into hell. I took the MTU value down to 1458 which seemed to help a tiny little bitsy bit.

local area connection 1.jpg

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cje85
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Message 7 of 14
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Re: puma 6 latency

On the DSLreports test, are the results any better on server 46 (London)? For some reason, your test used 4 (Dublin).

I get:

46 / London

Screenshot 2017-04-15 at 21.46.19.png

4 / Dublin:

Screenshot 2017-04-15 at 21.47.03.png

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wotusaw
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Message 8 of 14
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Re: puma 6 latency

Unbelievably this actually seems to work. Still testing it as frankly I'm sceptical and cannot believe my own gaming results..

See 'puma 6 latency fix'

http://thenitwitts.enjin.com/forum/viewforum/5250476/m/28206608

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wotusaw
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Re: puma 6 latency

Your absolutely right. I used the wrong server. Mine is 46. I'll post later those results which have on average 22/24 reds in them,

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shanematthews
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Message 10 of 14
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Re: puma 6 latency


wotusaw wrote:

Unbelievably this actually seems to work. Still testing it as frankly I'm sceptical and cannot believe my own gaming results..

See 'puma 6 latency fix'

http://thenitwitts.enjin.com/forum/viewforum/5250476/m/28206608


I wouldn't bother changing any of that, he doesn't even understand what power levels are and thinks that changing a setting on your NIC will help with that, the issue isn't with your computers NIC its to do with how the modem is processing data, some people barely even notice it while others got really unlucky, all depends on the network load from your LAN at the time of testing