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cje85
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Message 31 of 41
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Re: Latency higher than Virgin Media engineer tools shows

Unfortunately, higher latency/pings are normal on a DOCSIS based connection. If lower pings are essential to you, a BT/Openreach based service is a better option.

Is the 30Mb affecting Netflix in any way? I get that on the built in speed test all the time and it plays fine.

21ms to Google seems about right too:

PING www.google.co.uk (216.58.212.67) 56(84) bytes of data.

64 bytes from lhr35s05-in-f67.1e100.net (216.58.212.67): icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=19.6 ms
64 bytes from lhr35s05-in-f67.1e100.net (216.58.212.67): icmp_seq=2 ttl=54 time=21.1 ms
64 bytes from lhr35s05-in-f67.1e100.net (216.58.212.67): icmp_seq=3 ttl=54 time=23.1 ms
64 bytes from lhr35s05-in-f67.1e100.net (216.58.212.67): icmp_seq=4 ttl=54 time=21.9 ms
64 bytes from lhr35s05-in-f67.1e100.net (216.58.212.67): icmp_seq=5 ttl=54 time=27.9 ms
64 bytes from lhr35s05-in-f67.1e100.net (216.58.212.67): icmp_seq=6 ttl=54 time=20.8 ms

 

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Superuser
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Message 32 of 41
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Re: Latency higher than Virgin Media engineer tools shows

VM use a different technology to BT and all the other ISPs using xDSL and work differently.

xDSL works by "line training" which adjusts the speed and the level of error correction to provide a stable speed. As this is based on the BER of the line, so speed is sacrificed to provide stabilty which will naturally give a lower ping than the best effort delivery of DOCSIS systems. So, comparing pings between VM and BT is pointless This is why BT speeds are dependant from the distance you are from the cabinet.

The question I would be asking is why Netfix is only showing 30Mbps whilst I am getting the full 100Mbps from other devices, what your neighbour is getting is irrelevant. I would assume he has been upgraded to 70Mbps or the obvious question would be how is he getting 74Mbps out of a 50Mbps connection.

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RidingTheFlow
Fibre optic
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Message 33 of 41
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Re: Latency higher than Virgin Media engineer tools shows


griffin wrote:

VM use a different technology to BT and all the other ISPs using xDSL and work differently.

xDSL works by "line training" which adjusts the speed and the level of error correction to provide a stable speed. As this is based on the BER of the line, so speed is sacrificed to provide stabilty which will naturally give a lower ping than the best effort delivery of DOCSIS systems. So, comparing pings between VM and BT is pointless.


"Pointless"? Comparing pings between VM and BT shows exactly that xDSL gives you lower and, most important, consistent latency, without spikes causing by unpredictable collisions on DOCSIS shared line when somebody else was using it at same time.

A lot of people who regularly do real-time online games (like me) would gladly pick 70Mbps line with guaranteed low ping over 150Mpbs line with "most of the time ok" latency for the same price. Sadly, not everybody is free to choose.

 

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najjun
On our wavelength
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Message 34 of 41
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Re: Latency higher than Virgin Media engineer tools shows

Thats what i have been wanting to hear.
We are paying for a 'faster' service, if its slow i am allowed to complain and VM should resolve. I dont want to hear that this is normal of a docsis!
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RidingTheFlow
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Message 35 of 41
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Re: Latency higher than Virgin Media engineer tools shows


najjun wrote:
if its slow i am allowed to complain and VM should resolve. I dont want to hear that this is normal of a docsis!

Sure you are right to complain, but VM unlikely to resolve it. Ultimately they are limits of technology (DOCSIS) they've chosen - on the premise that most clients will not notice or bother about latency disadvantages. They are fully aware that some people will not be satisfied with it, but ultimately they just written such people off right from the start.

 

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najjun
On our wavelength
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Message 36 of 41
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Re: Latency higher than Virgin Media engineer tools shows

And thats exactly what is happening to my complaints
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Superuser
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Message 37 of 41
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Re: Latency higher than Virgin Media engineer tools shows


RidingTheFlow wrote:

griffin wrote:

VM use a different technology to BT and all the other ISPs using xDSL and work differently.

xDSL works by "line training" which adjusts the speed and the level of error correction to provide a stable speed. As this is based on the BER of the line, so speed is sacrificed to provide stabilty which will naturally give a lower ping than the best effort delivery of DOCSIS systems. So, comparing pings between VM and BT is pointless.


"Pointless"? Comparing pings between VM and BT shows exactly that xDSL gives you lower and, most important, consistent latency, without spikes causing by unpredictable collisions on DOCSIS shared line when somebody else was using it at same time.

Pointless as you are comparing two different technologies and as I said xDSL should give better ping times as that is how the technology is set up

Not sure what you mean by unpredictable collisions as all CMs on the same node recieve the same downstream traffic and only one CM can talk to the CMTS at a time. Yes nodes can get congested as it is a shared medium as you are trying to push more data than capacity will allow, but bear in mind DOCSIS was primarily designed for cable TV not broadband .

A lot of people who regularly do real-time online games (like me) would gladly pick 70Mbps line with guaranteed low ping over 150Mpbs line with "most of the time ok" latency for the same price. Sadly, not everybody is free to choose.

If you want low ping go for xDSL, a 5Mbps ADSL line is perfectly fine for online gaming, although downloading games maybe a tad slow.Horses for courses  really, you just need to pick the best option that is out there.

I am sure VM would look at any technical suggestions on how to lower pings on DOCSIS.


 

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RidingTheFlow
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Message 38 of 41
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Re: Latency higher than Virgin Media engineer tools shows


griffin wrote:

Pointless as you are comparing two different technologies and as I said xDSL should give better ping times as that is how the technology is set up


Well, that was a point of comparison actually measuring it right? You are basically saying "its apples and oranges - its pointless to taste if one is sweeter than another even if you like it sweet!" Smiley Wink

By "collisions" I meant "not being affected by your neighbors watching Netflix". Yeah, its not collisions in CSMA/CD sense. And you are affected even if there is no hard congestion - it produces up to ~20ms jitter if someone is on same channel as you.

 


griffin wrote:

I am sure VM would look at any technical suggestions on how to lower pings on DOCSIS.


Riiight, sure. I will be waiting with bated breath for these suggestions.

In the meantime maybe they first should look at technical suggestions for all these people on speed forum to actually get speeds they are paying for Smiley Wink

 

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Forum Team
Forum Team
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Message 39 of 41
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Re: Latency higher than Virgin Media engineer tools shows

I'm very sorry to hear about the connection trouble experienced najjun,

 

I've located your details and I'm unable to detect any active faults at the moment.

 

Let me know if you're still having trouble with this,

 

Nat_J


Who's who? Find out more about our community members. Good folk to know


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najjun
On our wavelength
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Message 40 of 41
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Re: Latency higher than Virgin Media engineer tools shows

Hi Nat,

Many thanks for your reply. Yes I am still having issues, and Yes I really want someone to assist me properly as a 'technical' person, not Virgin Media 'read from a paper answers'.

VM tech support has stopped calling me OR trying to resolve the issue until I am satisfied. According to VM support, they are satisfied and thats what counts. As you can see from this particular Post, we are technical users that probably comprise about 5% of the entire VM customer base, the VM service is fine for the other 95%, those 95% cannot see what we technical users can see. OK, enough emotion talk, lets talk hard facts.

I know I am repeating myself but this is how I started this post. At this Vivid100 internet service at my house, I do not see fast browsing like I used to see on BT and EE which were on less then half the speeds of this Vivid100 service. On BT/EE used to get 9ms ping, I am now getting 21+ pings. Some TV channels intermittently freeze which hardly used to happen on BT/EE. Netflix speed is showing 30Mb on my service, my neighbour is on Virgin Broadband size L (50Mb) with a Hub 2AC and he gets 74Mb on his netflix. All I am saying is that my service should be faster than what I am seeing. We know from our technical knowledge that the VM SuperHub3 has hardware issues and Intel Puma chip. Modems affected included the Arris Surfboard SB6190, the Hitron CGNV4, the Compal CH7465-LG, and Puma 6-based modems rebadged by ISPs, such as Virgin Media's Hub 3 and Comcast's top-end Xfinity boxes. This URL shows how many articles are referring to the Hub3 hardware woes https://goo.gl/We2CJU

=================

Then theres this article on the forum with PROOF that the Hub2AC gets a far better response on the same link then a SuperHub3 

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Gaming-Support/superhub-3-latency-FPS-gaming-impossible/td-p/340... (see the 2 graphs)

 Screen Shot 2017-10-09 at 19.17.29.jpg

 .=======

Maybe VM should try the Hub2AC on my link.

I want VM to admit there is an issue, with so many proofs existing out there and yet they are still denying this. I think its time to wake up OFSTED, Office of Fair Trading, Watchdog etc. 

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