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flipflopper
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Latency and packet loss - Telia.net - Been on going for weeks.

Have a CSGO server that me and some friends play on, server is in London. A bunch of us on Vermin media have been suffering with latency and packet loss for weeks now. 10% minimum with it hitting 20% on a regular basis. The problem is the routing, it is all happening at the Telia hop. I can see on this forum that there are stories of this happening years ago. We are getting rightly fed up of this now, it is unplayable.

PIseHC.jpg

Taken from ping plotter, this is the same for all of us. Please don't ask me to restart router and all that usual guff because that is clearly not the problem. What I would like to know is what can be done about it.

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flopflipper
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Re: Latency and packet loss - Telia.net - Been on going for weeks.

I'm in the same boat. has been going on for a couple of weeks now. Several of us are seeing packet loss on one of telia's london nodes @vultr-ic-312912-ldn-b3.c.telia.net. As we have no relationship with telia, can someone from VM reach out to telia and get them to take a look?

2 MTR's from around 7PM and 21:15 this evening. http://hastebin.com/nayawihoxa.1c 

 

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flopflipper
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Re: Latency and packet loss - Telia.net - Been on going for weeks.

Here's another MTR done during the day, latency and loss start increasing in the evening. Traffic shaping?  the telia hop saturated/at capacity?

http://hastebin.com/erifivokuz.avrasm

Is anyone from VM actually checking these boards or do I have call in to moan? 

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flipflopper
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Re: Latency and packet loss - Telia.net - Been on going for weeks.

Same for me also still and no one seems to be responding to this. I was told to post here to get help yet it seems to be getting ignored. I'd rather not have to call up and waste my time talking to x amount of people to explain the problem. The problem is quite clear so some acknowledgement would be nice and some information on what can/will be done about it also.

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flopflipper
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Re: Latency and packet loss - Telia.net - Been on going for weeks.

pretty much unplayable http://hastebin.com/iyijutelom.avrasm

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flipflopper
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Re: Latency and packet loss - Telia.net - Been on going for weeks.

I have just wasted around 30 minutes of my evening trying to speak to someone about this on the phone and no one seems to understand the problem. Got passed back and forth repeating myself over and over again and then to be placed on hold. This problem has plagued virgin media for years and no one seems to actually care about fixing it. Moving house shortly and luckily I can get fibre so good riddance to probably the worse customer service reps I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. No one seems to talk to each other and everyone gives a different answer.

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Superuser
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Re: Latency and packet loss - Telia.net - Been on going for weeks.

Your problem is that VM cannot do much about it. So their resources are targeted on things they CAN do something about.

The last trace-route in particular shows a tale of woe- VM's peering with Telia is fine, their transmission is fine, its the handoff to the server (which is likely peered) is the issue.

Really that's an issue the servers end.

Now VM's relationships with peering partners is something Ive given out about in the past, but in this case it really does not seem to be the issue- the only thing they could (in theory) do is pair with a different peering partner that uses better links to the server.   However multi million pound peering contracts are not negotiated on the basis of YOUR preferred server.....

To be blunt, VM are doing their job in this case. Its probably a happy accident that peering with Telia is fine and onward transmission is fine (we've seen some truly HORRIBLE latency within Telias network before now)  , but at the end of the day they are doing what you pay them to do.

Whilst changing ISP is an extreme reaction, if it gets YOU a better route to your chose server its certainly something to consider.  Just remember to do your homework, and that routes changes constantly depending on routing tables at the intermediate hops. So what is congested today can be sweet tomorrow. And Vica Versa

 

 

 


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flipflopper
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Re: Latency and packet loss - Telia.net - Been on going for weeks.

"Whilst changing ISP is an extreme reaction, if it gets YOU a better route to your chose server its certainly something to consider.  Just remember to do your homework, and that routes changes constantly depending on routing tables at the intermediate hops. So what is congested today can be sweet tomorrow. And Vica Versa"

Swapping ISP so I don't have to deal with their god awful customer service reps I have had to speak to about numerous problems in the past few weeks. No one in that place speaks to each other and I have wasted far too much time trying to sort things out.

Everyone else on that server that isn't on Virgin has zero problems and don't have problems with other servers so that is another reason for leaving. The problem with Virgin and Telia goes back quite some way it seems and across multiple games and multiple servers so it isn't just a preference for MY server.

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flopflipper
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Message 9 of 17
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Re: Latency and packet loss - Telia.net - Been on going for weeks.

Howdy Kippies. Appreciate the input.

Let's take the last hop out of the equation. This is an mtr straight to the link where latency is being introduced and packetloss is being observed. 

http://hastebin.com/giyuwanogo.avrasm

I have no relationship with Telia, but I know VM will have a NOC that probably raises tickets with Telia and various other peering/transit providers on a daily basis regarding these kind of issues. So I'd at least expect them to look into this and engage with Telia to see what they can do from their end. If nobody complains, nothing will get done. We're not asking for traffic to be routed along a different path or via another provider, simply looking for someone to look into this.

I totally understand flipflopper frustration when it comes to explaining anything slightly technical to the first and sometimes even 2nd line support folks that doesn't involve resetting and rebooting router. 

As a VM user I've had very similar issues trying to reach another server, after routing had been changed. I spent a very very long time on the phone, but was able to get an actual valid and technical response and reasoning from one the the network engineers as to why the change had taken place and would most likely not get reversed (any time soon). **bleep** happens, but after receiving an actual answers rather than the usual excuses you hear from L1/L2 staff I was 'happy. No offense to you 1st and 2nd liners but the support you can offer is often very limited. And the unwillingness to admit anything being wrong or not even willing to escalate queries or complaints is often very frustrating.

So, here we are...flagging up an issue. HELP VM, HELP.

 

 

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Superuser
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Message 10 of 17
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Re: Latency and packet loss - Telia.net - Been on going for weeks.

I think we have similair ideas of L1 and L2 support. Unfortunately , the cynic in me truly believes that it extends far further up the food chain than just that...

Ive done A LOT of digging on similair threads, to the point where its kind of "what will be will be". What you interpret as something being fixed network side previously  in my mind is the internet doing what it does- eventually finding a better route (even if I'm not active in these threads I monitor them)

My honest assessment of the current state of play is- were I an avid gamer, Id be looking elsewhere. HUB3 introduces latency, Docsis introduces latency and transmission across the VM network is highly dependent on protocol, file size and what appears to be traffic shaping at peering. I don't believe it IS traffic shaping, just poor configuration, but it LOOKS like it. Try dragging files off of a server in Germany and see if you hit 200Mbs...

You are absolutely right, VM SHOULD be raising this with Telia, the issue is it may not even be THEIR problem-- it looks to be bottlenecking at the peering into the local infrastructure of the server- which COULD be poor peering from Telia but just as likely to be misconfigured load balancing or just vanilla not enough bandwidth.

In any of the above cases , moving to an ISP with less inherent latency (both on the network and from LAN to WAN) and an upload that supports Twitch etc,different peering partnerships and fewer issues with VOIP is a likely solution.

I play a lot of single player games, downloaded off steam, move a fair few large files and have no over utilisation in my area. So my experience with VM is pretty darn good. But other people have other needs...

 

 

 

 

 


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