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SpaceCadet
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Bounced messages to NTLWorld address

As of the past few months, messages from certain senders, sent to one of my NTLWorld addresses, are being bounced.  Two companies (with important material which they are trying to send to me) have written to me to inform me of this.  Both relate to important messages which they periodically send and used to be received with no problem.  The messages are not in any of my SPAM folders.  For some reason the NTLWorld server is now bouncing these messages.

Can one of the Virgin forum team advise please?

 

 

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Lukaszp
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Message 2 of 9
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Re: Bounced messages to NTLWorld address

Do not expect an answer from VM for another 2 weeks. Hundreds of people have this problem and VM refuses to aknowledge their anti spam is broken. It seems like their support can't cope so it takes ages to get a response. 

Over to Wrock now.

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Superuser
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Message 3 of 9
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Re: Bounced messages to NTLWorld address

On the other hand you could read my post in this thread and take action to adjust your web mail spam settings which will cure your issue of not receiving mail that you should. You will also gain an insight into what is happening (if you desire to do so).

You do not need the intervention of a Forum Team member. The solution is in your hands. If you were a sender getting bounces the Forum Team will intervene because there are issues about how some senders configure their servers which can be addressed. However what is clear is that the systemic issue with the VM e-mail receiving servers do need to be addressed but VM are reluctant to do so on that basis.

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Email/Emails-to-Virgin-rejected-Spam-content-found/td-p/3206095

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Superuser 2017/18
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Lukaszp
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Message 4 of 9
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Re: Bounced messages to NTLWorld address

I'm very interested in how users can "adjust web mail spam settings" to get bounced messages...
They are rejected on anti spam filter level and do not even get to his mailbox spam folder. Solution is in your hands: get another email account with a company that respects their customers.
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Superuser
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Message 5 of 9
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Re: Bounced messages to NTLWorld address

Just plain wrong. The spam filters look at messages that have a raised spam score above the trigger level and will reject unseen by the user that mail if the user settings are to reject all spam. They will pass the message if the user setting is to direct spam to the spam folder. We have demonstrated that this works time and time again. Indeed it is how I have had my spam settings set since day 1 and I have not lost any mail, even though I see that some legitimate mail is still being marked as spam. My objection to the VM system is that this issue is a systemic mail problem and is not being addressed as such.  As for your advice that users should should look elsewhere for their e-mail provider. I wouldn't argue strongly against that. 


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Superuser 2017/18
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Please don't send me private messages unless I ask you to.
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Lukaszp
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Message 6 of 9
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Re: Bounced messages to NTLWorld address

The problem is the rejected emails had been accepted before and I doubt 60 users (in our case) suddenly decided to fiddle with anti spam settings. I'm wondering why VM doesn't advise anyone to adjust it but say that the problem is on a sender side.
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Message 7 of 9
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Re: Bounced messages to NTLWorld address

@Lukaszp

Read this.

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Email/Ravenstar-s-Email-FAQ-s/m-p/3026118#M129705

There are two things which could happen cause the problem.
1. Something changes your end.
2. Virgin tweaks the anti spam filters.

However if mail is being rejected with "Spam Content Found" the fix in the above link does work.

I'm going to assume you know something about email.

Mail server transactions can be rejected at several points in the delivery cycle.

1. Initial connection and HELO/EHLO exchange.  This happens if a server is responding to a server IP being blacklisted.
2. mail from: rcpt to: exchange - usually if a recipients address is wrong or someone tries to use a mail exchanger to relay mail elsewhere.
3. After the DATA portion of the mail is received. - This is when the spam filters have had a chance to review the content of the mail and decide whether it's

  1. Ham - in which case it's delivered to the user's inbox
  2. Spam - in which case the spam settings kick in.

Now I do have evidence that even if the mail isn't rejected at stage 1 and get's through to stage 3 that the spam filters do look at blacklists, and give the mail a high spam rating.  They also seem to be tuned to rate html links too highly meaning that mail that is marked as ham elsewhere is marked as spam by the content filters.

Regardless if you are seeing the bounce message "Spam content found" - the mail transaction has reached the DATA portion of the send.  So users changing the spam settings can and does work.

Many users still don't know that Virgin set the default spam setting to reject mail.  This is an error I've repeatedly asked Virgin to address.  I have confirmed with other senders that mail sent to users who have changed their spam settings as indicated in my post above - do get their mail delivered to the spam folder.  Which to me is a start.  AFAIK the spam filters can be trained too, although there are some holdouts that still get put in my spam folder (notably twitter and Staples), the majority of mail to my blueyonder account is correctly filtered.  I get spam too but the majority ends up in my spam folder.

I and Howard, have repeatedly asked Virgin to review the decision to review the default spam setting for users and force a change across all accounts.  Unfortunately we are still waiting on them to do this.

If you don't believe the above your more than welcome to send a test mail to my blueyonder account.  All Virgin Media domains use the same mail exchangers and are subject to the same spam filtering rules.

Ravenstar68

________________________________________


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SpaceCadet
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Message 8 of 9
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Re: Bounced messages to NTLWorld address

I have altered the SPAM settings for the E-Mail address being affected.  I recalled that, although I have had the address for a while, it is more recent than my other addresses.  For those I had, historically, checked all the SPAM settings, which had then migrated over when Virgin altered their E-Mail systems.  However, the newer address had been missed.

Thanks for the many suggestions and helpful comments.  I am hopeful that this will fix the issue for this address but I only previously knew of an issue when a couple of large and well known companies wrote to me to say that their important E-Mails to me were being bounced.

 

 

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Message 9 of 9
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Re: Bounced messages to NTLWorld address

That was the mistake. The spam settings you had from the Google system DID NOT migrate over. VM made it clear at the time that the default setting for spam "reject all spam" was going to be used after the migration unless the user changed it. Which I did. Water under the bridge now. Bad mistake by VM given the state of the spam filters.

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Superuser 2017/18
Use Kudos to say thanks
Mark answer as "helpful" only when the problem is solved
Please don't send me private messages unless I ask you to.
I do not work for VM. The advice I give is based on my best understanding of VM policy and practice. You rely on it at your own risk.