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cybmole
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Performing Rights Socienty ( PRS) - a rant

had annoying emila and phone call ( to our ex diretory landline) form these blood suckers

my question is : what is their data source

they had 4 items of data

1. My wide's first name only

2. an old virginmedia email address

3. our landline - which is provided by VM and which should be ex-directory

4 a business type of "hospitality"

BUT

  • we have no direct web or directory presence.
  • we once had a Virgin Media personal webspace page but that is long gone,
  • and that only had a mobile number on it.
  • we now use airbnb / Holiday Lettings who do not give out emails or phone numbers.
  • we changed the email address to gmail when the migration and spam problems hit - many months ago
  • it is possible my wife has the landline in her mobile answer service message
  • I suppose I should check dead services like Scoot, Yell who may once have scraped up some stuff, but those would not have my wife's first name

I am particularly stumped by business type = hospitality. - unless we ticked some box at paypal, or with the free google local / Bing for Businesses entries.,- and by the @VM email address which as I say is not published anywhere..

I had researched PRS after the email , which I ignored, and google tells me that in order to pay for their CEO's private jets they now hound the smallest of small business. and that if you rent out a room with a TV in it and your guest turns on the TV, thats a public performance - so pay up.

Meanwhile their fellow mob - PPL - go after CDs, DVDs, You can provide a DVD player but if you helpfully provide an old DVD that you once bought yourself, and your guest watches it, that's another performance - so pay up for another , different licence ( cos the small print on your DVD says private use only )

so the phone conversation went like this

1. I get a call from a withheld number! - i'ts PRS, I have to convince them that I am " authorised to speak on behalf of the business", i say " we don't do music", I sidestep the " what, not even  televisions" entrapment question, and ask " what business are we talking about". That's where I get the answer " we have you classed as hospitality". so at this point I go off into where they can stick their licence, don't ever call us again, and forget to ask where they got the data.

2. I go to block their number but I can't as it was " withheld"

 For the record we do have a single self contained apartment that we let via airbnb. PRS rules generously say that if you let less than 3 rooms they may waive their fees for now. not sure of PPLs policy. The principle of being asked to buy a PRS licence for a TV which already has  a BBC licence, or to buy another PPL  licence to use a paid for DVD, or spotify, or netflix ( where the licencing should be covered by their own fees. is just ....aaargh

 next thing we know, the'll have you for singing in the shower Smiley Happy

Google suggest some interesting lines of banter if hassled.

e.g. I only use talk radio - do you licence conversations now

I only use classical FM - how much did you pay Mozart last year

or I have  customers with ringtones, do I need a sign saying turn those off at the door in case they give  " musical performance"

finally, this from a google search:

PPL are as far as I can research a charity who collect for the performers but only pay them 1% keeping the rest for admin and their boss who is apparently on £500k, fact:- It is our fault that we have got into this state with these parasites as everyone should have refused to pay them a penny

...I've just had PPL on the phone, and the guy has told me that as cars are brought into the workshop with the radio on, we are required to have a licence!!! When driven into the workshop and then left running for diagnostic purposes - we need a licence!!!

 

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J0hn
Super solver
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Re: Performing Rights Socienty ( PRS) - a rant

It sounds like they have bought an out of date database and are cold calling just to put the squeeze on, are your registered with the TPS, that would be my next move
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cybmole
Community elder
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Message 3 of 7
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Re: Performing Rights Socienty ( PRS) - a rant

yes we are registered with TPS  for all the good that does.

usually our trusty BT8500 call guardian takes care of things but withheld numbers are tricky as it cannot caller ID them. So we have opted to have those go directty to answer machine now & PRS have not dared call back.

out of data data base is probably right, but a tad concerned that they got a business classification from somewhere. we mave have had to choose one with paypal when they asked where our credits ( mostly from airbnb)  were coming from but it should not leak !

 this got me thinking about the whole issue of ex-directory numbers in a post-BT-monopoly world, so I have posted a query in the landline section on that issue

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cybmole
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Message 4 of 7
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Re: Performing Rights Socienty ( PRS) - a rant

interestingly - I checked yell.com and found an unclaimed business entry with our landline and ourdefunct VM webspace address. So I have claimed it and asked them to delete it - we will see.  that would only have given PRS  2 of the 4 data points though.and that entry was filed under self catering holiday accomodation.

. I have found in the past with other activities, that both Yell & Scoot scrape up entries which are a pain to remove as their web site are so buggy, and which never gave any genuine leads - the only people who ever called on those were yell/scoot sales wanting to sell upgrades . both of those directories are failed businesses , wiped out by Google. [ I stupidly bought shares in Scoot when it was a dot com darling back in 1999 - totally bombed ] Same with Touchlocal who used to call & bug me regularly, despite me telling them that no one in their right mind is ever going to go to a site called Touchlocal when they can get better answers from Google

the BT8500 has taken out the marketing and web site builder guys who'd call saying

" do you want to be on the first page of Google ? "

and I'd say NO....

....10 seconds of silence while that guy processes that unexpected answer, and tries 

" don't you want to earn more money".

NO ...

more silence....

Why Not.

I have enough already thanks ,, please go away....

 if I was feeling helpful I'd explain that my business at the time was face to face music teaching which is of zero value to anyone not living close by , so 1st page of google search results was of no interest., and it was not something I did to get rich from... poor salespeople who live only to make money just could not get that.

 the other gem was the web site cowboys who call saying

you need a web site presence

got one, thanks

but no one can find you

well you managed it....

but you are not on google

oh yes I am...

then , if bored, I'd walk them through how a google search for my business + my town, put me and my little £10 p.a. easily webspace page on in the top 3 results...

 

 

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J0hn
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Message 5 of 7
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Re: Performing Rights Socienty ( PRS) - a rant

Nothing I can add to that, you try harder to keep secure than I do, but then my web presence is not under my name anywhere that I'm not forced to tell the truth I don't, in keeping my ID to myself that is I'm not a compulsive liarSmiley Happy
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Sololobo
Wise owl
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Re: Performing Rights Socienty ( PRS) - a rant

Information on TV and Copyright licences here, https://www.visitbritain.org/pink-book/tv-and-copyright-licences (although I'm sure you are already aware).

The data sources used may well have been scraped from Facebook, Twitter and other social media sites, from accommodation review sites, from voter registration and local authority records, jeez the list of possibilities is endless!

 Welcome to the world of Big Data where you have no privacy, no security, and no right to a private life, no matter what the Human Rights Act 1998 may say Smiley Sad




It's What I Do.
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cybmole
Community elder
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Re: Performing Rights Socienty ( PRS) - a rant


Sololobo wrote:

Information on TV and Copyright licences here, https://www.visitbritain.org/pink-book/tv-and-copyright-licences (although I'm sure you are already aware).

 

that is just farcical....
  • If you offer short-stay accommodation (of any kind) to overnight visitors and have installed television sets in the accommodation, you need a 'Hotel and Mobile Units Television Licence' (hotel licence).

  • If you play any copyright music in public or on your premises or if it is performed live, you may need a PRS for Music licence.

  • If you play recorded music in public on your premises (this includes radio and TVs) you may need a PPL licence.

  • If you offer a DVD film library, you need a DVD Concierge licence.

So if anyone stays overnight at your house and open i player on their smart phone you need a licence for that. 

 and they are not get gunning for spotify, plex... cos they don't yet understand that stuff. but soon it will be an offence to have a movie in a shared PC folder ! 

 i think we'll add a sign saying please do not sing in the shower, it's not licenced Smiley Happy

this just confirms my decision to have NO direct web or directory presence and  work only through airbnb  etc, who  operate a messaging gateway with actual contact details stripped, and who let through only pre-vetted customers

and the DVDs we were providing for free can go to oxfam. They can stick their dvd concierge licence next to the other ones.

is as I'm not a lawyer, I wonder which definitions cover  " stream" as per spotify, google music.... Maybe PPL , PRS will sue each other into oblivion over who gets their paws on that cake Smiley Happy. if a guest logs our roku stick into their spotify account.... who pays ?

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